What can I log as XC time?

"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
. com...
To be legal as a cross country you have to land at an airport more than
50 miles away. Flying 75 miles out and then back without landing
doesn't count. It's a stupid rule but that's what it is.

from my understand though, the rules are vague though. What if I fly
from airport A for a touch and go at airport B for 51 nm. I then fly to
airport C that is 25nm and do a bounce and go. I then continue back to
airport A another 25 nm and land. I believe I can count that as all XC.
Or am I wrong and all airports that I land/touch and go at have to
be 50 nm apart?

No, they don't. They can all be one mile apart and the flight will still be
a cross country. Not only that, if you are flying a 50 nm cross country for
the purpose of logging it towards, say, a commercial certificate, then you
can stop at any number of interim airports.

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10 nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10 nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but
only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10
nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and
back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"


Yeah, and I was the one that pointed it out in a previous post.... Oh, well.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:40:51 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Peter Clark" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but
only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10
nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and
back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"


Yeah, and I was the one that pointed it out in a previous post.... Oh, well.

Yeah, and I was referring to the part of your post containing "You
could meet this particular cross country requirement by flying to an
airport that is 10 nm away, doing a touch and go..". Unless I read
your post incorrectly, you appear to be indicating that T&G on the
Private Solo Long XC was acceptable, or you meant to type stop and go
and did touch instead.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:40:51 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Peter Clark" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own
special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but
only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet
this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is
10
nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do
a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and
back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance
of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being
more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"


Yeah, and I was the one that pointed it out in a previous post.... Oh,
well.

Yeah, and I was referring to the part of your post containing "You
could meet this particular cross country requirement by flying to an
airport that is 10 nm away, doing a touch and go..". Unless I read
your post incorrectly, you appear to be indicating that T&G on the
Private Solo Long XC was acceptable, or you meant to type stop and go
and did touch instead.

No, you read it right. It is just embarrassing to point out in one post that
a full stop is necessary and then go right ahead and forget that in the
next.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:56:45 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


No, you read it right. It is just embarrassing to point out in one post that
a full stop is necessary and then go right ahead and forget that in the
next.

Ah, OK, sorry - I misinterpreted where you were applying the irony.
But anyway, brainfarts happen to us all.

On to other things...
P

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news


The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10 nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.



Chris, I just can't agree with the very last part of that, for the private
pilot certificate (or commercial, or instrument rating), unless I miss your
meaning, which seems quite clear. Yes, there are specific rules for the
private pilot XC, but they do not provide an exception to the requirements
of 61.1. The flight must meet 61.1(b)(3) as well as 61.109. Part 61.109
defines the experience requirements for cross-country flights, so the time
aquired on the student-private-pilot XC flights must meet the definition of
cross-country time as well as complying with any additional requirements for
the flights, in the absence of a specific exception.

(3) Cross-country time means-

....

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements
(except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate
(except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot
certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising
recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c),
time acquired during a flight-

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line
distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of
departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation
aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing
point.



I am unable today to reach John Lynch's Part 61 FAQ on the 'net. The latest
one I have stored on my computer, which is nearly two years old, makes it
clear that the flight must include a point of landing that is more than 50
nm from the original point of departure.

Also, I disagree with the T&G aspect of your post, since the reg requires
full-stop landings at a minimum of three points, but someone else has
already posted on that.

Aside: As to the general question of multi-leg and multi-day XC flights,
Q&A #433 addresses the subject, but it does not include the question of
local flight time at an intermediate airport.

Another aside: I think that following radar vectors is another means of
proceeding to a destination airport that does not meet the navigation
systems requirement of the rule.

Stan