What can I log as XC time?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Mike O'Malley" wrote in message
news
"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Newps" wrote in message
...
The point is can you land at some distant airport and not navigate
to
it. Why even put that stupid statement in there?


Maybe to get their revenge on "Wrong Way" Corrigan?


But he used dead-reckoning. He was really wrong, but it doesn't say
anything about how accurate your navigation has to be.

If you believe Corrigan was actually lost, I have some nice sunny desert
resort property on the Olympic Peninsula to sell you.

Is that anywhere near a nice beach?

Damn, forgot the :-) again. Amazing what a lack of inflection can do to a
sentence.

BTW- I realize he wasn't really lost, but was denied permission to attempt
the flight and used that as his official excuse.

Mike O'Malley

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:39:05 -0600, Newps wrote:

The point is can you land at some distant airport and not navigate to
it. Why even put that stupid statement in there?

Sure you can! Get in the airplane, take off, fly in a generally
straight line in a direction chose at random, spot an airport ("looky
there! 4000 feet of asphalt in a straight line!"), and land. No
navigation involved!

Oh, all right, if you want to count following a compass line as
navigation...

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:05:46 -0500, "Mike O'Malley"
wrote:

But he used dead-reckoning. He was really wrong, but it doesn't say
anything about how accurate your navigation has to be.

Douglas Corrigan knew perfectly well where he was going, and he got
there by navigating.

(For those of a younger generation, Corrigan was refused permission to
fly from New York to Ireland, so he declared that instead he was
flying to Los Angeles, and behold! He landed in Ireland by mistake. He
even wrote a book about it. Life was much more innocent in those
days.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10 nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but
only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10
nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and
back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"


Yeah, and I was the one that pointed it out in a previous post.... Oh, well.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:40:51 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Peter Clark" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but
only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10
nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and
back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"


Yeah, and I was the one that pointed it out in a previous post.... Oh, well.

Yeah, and I was referring to the part of your post containing "You
could meet this particular cross country requirement by flying to an
airport that is 10 nm away, doing a touch and go..". Unless I read
your post incorrectly, you appear to be indicating that T&G on the
Private Solo Long XC was acceptable, or you meant to type stop and go
and did touch instead.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news


The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is 10 nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.



Chris, I just can't agree with the very last part of that, for the private
pilot certificate (or commercial, or instrument rating), unless I miss your
meaning, which seems quite clear. Yes, there are specific rules for the
private pilot XC, but they do not provide an exception to the requirements
of 61.1. The flight must meet 61.1(b)(3) as well as 61.109. Part 61.109
defines the experience requirements for cross-country flights, so the time
aquired on the student-private-pilot XC flights must meet the definition of
cross-country time as well as complying with any additional requirements for
the flights, in the absence of a specific exception.

(3) Cross-country time means-

....

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements
(except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate
(except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot
certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising
recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c),
time acquired during a flight-

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line
distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of
departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation
aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing
point.



I am unable today to reach John Lynch's Part 61 FAQ on the 'net. The latest
one I have stored on my computer, which is nearly two years old, makes it
clear that the flight must include a point of landing that is more than 50
nm from the original point of departure.

Also, I disagree with the T&G aspect of your post, since the reg requires
full-stop landings at a minimum of three points, but someone else has
already posted on that.

Aside: As to the general question of multi-leg and multi-day XC flights,
Q&A #433 addresses the subject, but it does not include the question of
local flight time at an intermediate airport.

Another aside: I think that following radar vectors is another means of
proceeding to a destination airport that does not meet the navigation
systems requirement of the rule.

Stan

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:40:51 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Peter Clark" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:03:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

The rules are quite clear. Take the 150 nm cross country for a private
pilot
certificate, for example. This cross country flight has its own
special
rules and definition. The total distance must be at least 150 nm, but
only
one segment between airports must be at least 50 nm. You could meet
this
particular cross country requirement by flying to an airport that is
10
nm
away, doing a touch and go, then to an airport 65 miles from that, do
a
touch and go, and return to your original point of departure. Out and
back
is 150 nm and two of the legs were over 50 nm. Or, you could fly 45 nm
from
A to B, 64 nm from B to C, and 45 nm from C to A, for a total distance
of
154 miles, one leg being over 50 nm, but none of the airports being
more
than 50 nm from the airport of original departure.

Except that 61.109(a)(5)(ii) explicitly calls for full-stop landings
for the PPL long XC.

"(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance
of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing
locations; and"


Yeah, and I was the one that pointed it out in a previous post.... Oh,
well.

Yeah, and I was referring to the part of your post containing "You
could meet this particular cross country requirement by flying to an
airport that is 10 nm away, doing a touch and go..". Unless I read
your post incorrectly, you appear to be indicating that T&G on the
Private Solo Long XC was acceptable, or you meant to type stop and go
and did touch instead.

No, you read it right. It is just embarrassing to point out in one post that
a full stop is necessary and then go right ahead and forget that in the
next.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:56:45 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


No, you read it right. It is just embarrassing to point out in one post that
a full stop is necessary and then go right ahead and forget that in the
next.

Ah, OK, sorry - I misinterpreted where you were applying the irony.
But anyway, brainfarts happen to us all.

On to other things...
P

Any time you land at an airport other than the one you took off
from .. you can log it as X/C. However .. it must be at least 50nm
for it to count toward the X/C requirments toward your PPL, CPL, Instr.
For simplicity I just forego logging it unless it's 50nm.


"Bob" wrote in message
...
1) I keep my plane in a hangar at an airport more than 50
nm from the airport nearest my home. I decide to fly it
home for a week (1 hr), and tie it down. I fly locally for
that week (5 hrs), then back to my hangar airport (1 hr).
How much of that can I log as XC time usable for a rating?

2) I decide to take a long multi-day trip. Most days I fly
far more than 50 nm (25 hrs). Some days I fly "locally" to
see the sights and return to the same airport (10 hrs) that
is more than 50 nm from home. Some days I make only a
little progress and land less than 50 nm from the airport of
the previous day, but much farther than 50 nm from my hangar
airport (5hrs). How much of that can I log as XC time
usable for a rating?