Question from a new flight student (whopping 7 hours!)

On 18 Oct 2004 10:12:52 -0700, (John Galban)
wrote:

(This may be wrong but,)I believe when a TPA is not explicitly stated
in the AF/D the expected TPA is 800' AGL.


That was probably correct 10 or so years ago, but the new standard
TPA is 1000' AGL if not stated in the AFD. The AIM was changed to
reflect this.


I agree the AIM gives a new standard, but in my experience the AF/D
has not kept up with this change. Most airports I've seen that do not
have a TPA listed have an 800' pattern.

Not trying to be contrary, I don't mind the 1000' standard, just seems
that the FAA needs to be told to change the AF/D for a bunch of
airports.

z

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:48:39 -0600, Newps wrote:

For approach freq's do not use the sectional unless you have to. Use
the ATIS, it will always tell you what the approach freq will be.

It will? I guess I don't travel far enough afield to hear this. None
of the ATIS's I've listened to in Northern New England do more than
tell you the standard ATIS fare. Here's an example from a website of
a typical ATIS broadcast:

ATIS information identifier letter Information India
Time of Report 1755 Zulu
Wind Direction/Speed 260 at 15 gusting to 19
Visibility 6 miles, light snow
Ceiling 2,600 Scattered, 3,500 Overcast
Temperature -5
Dew Point -11
Altimeter 29.99
Instrument Approach and Runways in use ILS (Instrument Landing
System) runway 23 Left in use
Landing 23 Left, Departing 23 Right
Notices to Airmen
Taxiway/runway closures, lights, etc.
Runway 18 closed

I don't see any information regarding approach frequencies there, and
it's been my experience that you odn't find that information in ATIS.
But perhaps if I flew into busier airports once in a while?

Corky Scott

I have heard approach freqs. announced quite frequently on ATIS in the
Midwest.

Most airports I've seen that do not
have a TPA listed have an 800' pattern.

Not trying to be contrary, I don't mind the 1000' standard, just seems
that the FAA needs to be told to change the AF/D for a bunch of
airports.


I agree. However I bet the FAA expected the airports to just change their
pattern.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

On 19 Oct 2004 00:35:48 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:

However I bet the FAA expected the airports to just change their
pattern.


Probably, and I'll bet through osmosis as I'm sure they didn't
communicate the change to any operators.

z

Corky Scott wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:48:39 -0600, Newps wrote:

snip
I don't see any information regarding approach frequencies there, and
it's been my experience that you odn't find that information in ATIS.
But perhaps if I flew into busier airports once in a while?

Corky,

At airports where more than one approach frequency is used, they
usually include the info after the runway information on ATIS.
Something like :'

Arrivals from the north, contact approach on xxx.xx
Arrivals from the south, contact approach on xxx.xx


John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

zatatime wrote:

On 19 Oct 2004 00:35:48 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:


However I bet the FAA expected the airports to just change their
pattern.



Probably, and I'll bet through osmosis as I'm sure they didn't
communicate the change to any operators.

Perhaps that tells you how unimportant the pattern altitude is.

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:20:33 -0600, Newps
wrote:

Probably, and I'll bet through osmosis as I'm sure they didn't
communicate the change to any operators.

Perhaps that tells you how unimportant the pattern altitude is.


Nope. Just how bureaucracy can be.

Nice try though.

z

wrote in message
...
Still, many pilots and instructors don't see the problem... The AIM
says that you may turn from the departure leg when "within 300 feet of
the pattern altitude". So, for an 800' pattern, 500' AGL is the
correct minimum altitude to turn. However, for a 1000' pattern, 800'
AGL is the correct minimum altitude to turn... when remaining in the
pattern.

Sure that's not 700ft? :-)

Paul

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:qI_bd.187839$wV.66243@attbi_s54...
What I like are the guys who obviously aren't carrying a sectional chart
(or
any other airport information) and insist on calling Unicom for an
"airport
advisory" -- despite the airport having a published AWOS frequency.

What if the wind is between two runways? Of course you're entitled
to use either, or neither, but if there's a temporary lull in the radio, or
non radio aircraft using one particular runway then surely it's better to
be given a heads up on which is the current preferred runway?

For example, at Winter Haven there's a 04-22 and a 11-29. 04-22 is
longer. So if the wind is between the two, usually 04-22 is the one used.
It's not written anywhere, but it's just local knowledge.

If the wind is variable, then one particular runway may be preferred,
maybe for noise reasons, maybe because someone is taxying out to
that runway to take off, or maybe that's the runway everyone else
is headed for while inbound. And it doesn't have to be the FBO that
replies. If no one's behind the desk and there's maybe one plane in
the pattern for a particular runway, not making calls on the radio
because he doesn't see or hear any other traffic, or maybe he's just
inbound and picked a particular runway, this person can tell the
person who asked what that runway is - so they're both singing from
the same song sheet.

Paul

Paul Sengupta wrote:

What if the wind is between two runways? Of course you're entitled
to use either, or neither, but if there's a temporary lull in the radio, or
non radio aircraft using one particular runway then surely it's better to
be given a heads up on which is the current preferred runway?

For example, at Winter Haven there's a 04-22 and a 11-29. 04-22 is
longer. So if the wind is between the two, usually 04-22 is the one used.
It's not written anywhere, but it's just local knowledge.

This is also the case for airports with single runways. In the event of a direct
crosswind (and sometimes even with a bit of a tailwind) one direction is considered
the preferred runway. In most untowered New Jersey airports, this is whatever runway
points in a westerly direction, but, again, it's mainly local knowledge.

It's always fun when the wind is out of the northeasterly quadrant and somebody
decides to land on 24 instead of 06 just because they've "always" used 24.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.