Female pilot accident rates

NoPoliticsHere wrote:
That's easy. No special allowances for gender. Female pilots should
be held to the same standards as the guys. If that means two females
in one cockpit, so be it, but make it equitable.

--------------

I am all for that. Same standards, same opportunities. Women can and
do perform well in high-stress environments, generally speaking.

I like to fly, but I daresay I don't have whatever it takes to fly an
F-14 in carrier operations. But then, *statistically*, you don't
either. Very few people do.

But women can do ok, given the chance. Debby Rihn-Harvey, Svetlana
Kapanina, and Patty Wagstaff are examples of this.

Wendy

" wrote

I like to fly, but I daresay I don't have whatever it takes to fly an
F-14 in carrier operations. But then, *statistically*, you don't
either. Very few people do.

From a former Naval Aviator.
Being an excellent fighter pilot and landing on an aircraft carrier
is much different than flying jetliners from JFK to ORD.
It's all about "Spatial Orientation", a trait that the Navy tested
for extesively during the training process.

I have posted this previously....here it is again.


The Brain, Richard Restak, M.D.

Based on the PBS Series, "The Brain"


Brain-Sex Differences: Are They Real?

Men generally have better spatial function
than women. This refers to the ability to
mentally visualize and maneuver objects
within three-dimensional space. But among
men who don't produce the male sex hor-
mone testosterone, spatial abilities are poorly
developed. According to Harvard neurolo-
gist Norman Geschwind, "It is very impor-
tant to stress that there are women who
have absolutely superb spatial function and
there are plenty of men whose spatial func-
tion is abysmal. But on the average, men
have better spatial function than women.
One practical consequence involves the dif-
ficulties some people experience in the
immediate discrimination between right and
left. In one study twice as many women as
men reported "frequent" problems in rap-
idly deciding about right-left issues (turning
right at a fork in the road, quickly respond-
ing when asked to raise the right or left
hand, and so on).
Other areas in which brain-sex differ-
ences play a prominent but by no means
exclusive role include:
Language facility. Females generally
speak earlier, learn foreign languages more
easily, and outperform males in tests of
verbal fluency.
Fine hand control. From an early age,
rapid sequential movements are performed
better by girls, who, as a result, exhibit
better penmanship than boys of the same
age.
Mathematical ability. Studies among
mathematically gifted students reveal that
males outnumber females among the supe-
rior achievers. According to Johns Hop-
kins researchers Camilla Benbow and Julian
Stanley, "We favor the hypothesis that sex
differences in achievement in and attitude
toward mathematics result from superior
male mathematical ability, which may in
turn be related to greater male ability in
spatial tasks."
Dyslexia, stuttering, delayed speech, au-
tism, hyperactivity...each of these neuro-
behavioral disorders occurs with greater
frequency in males.
Although the above sex differences are
well established, no one has as yet convinc-
ingly demonstrated an anatomic difference
between the brain structures of human
males and females. These behavioral differ-
ences may be the result of chemical changes
in brain function resulting from the influ-
ence of sex hormones in early prenatal
development.



Bob Moore

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:06:35 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

Mathematical ability. Studies among
mathematically gifted students reveal that
males outnumber females among the supe-
rior achievers. According to Johns Hop-
kins researchers Camilla Benbow and Julian
Stanley, "We favor the hypothesis that sex
differences in achievement in and attitude
toward mathematics result from superior
male mathematical ability, which may in
turn be related to greater male ability in
spatial tasks."

Not sure when this study was completed Bob, and I'm also not sure what
age group the study you reference covers, but the information I just
saw two days ago cited just the opposite. Girls were testing MUCH
higher than boys in elementary school. Sometimes the difference
carries into high school and college, but at some point hormones and
interest in the opposite sex sort of cuts off the competition. As
elementary school girls, boys were not an issue, studying was. But
when they hit puberty, suddenly girls do not want to do better than
boys in class, and the old "no one likes a smarty pants" issue,
believe it or not, seems to still prevail.

Corky Scott

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:06:35 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

Mathematical ability. Studies among
mathematically gifted students reveal that
males outnumber females among the supe-
rior achievers. According to Johns Hop-
kins researchers Camilla Benbow and Julian
Stanley, "We favor the hypothesis that sex
differences in achievement in and attitude
toward mathematics result from superior
male mathematical ability, which may in
turn be related to greater male ability in
spatial tasks."

Not sure when this study was completed Bob, and I'm also not sure what
age group the study you reference covers, but the information I just
saw two days ago cited just the opposite. Girls were testing MUCH
higher than boys in elementary school.


That has to do with GameBoy and XBox, versus Math :-).

Corky Scott wrote in message . ..

Not sure when this study was completed Bob, and I'm also not sure what
age group the study you reference covers, but the information I just
saw two days ago cited just the opposite. Girls were testing MUCH
higher than boys in elementary school.

I've heard from reliable sources that the deck has been stacked against
little boys in grammar school since the '80s. This "information" you
saw two days ago supposedly citing just the opposite would immediately
come under suspicion to me, considering the politics of the last
couple of decades especially.

Sometimes the difference
carries into high school and college, but at some point hormones and
interest in the opposite sex sort of cuts off the competition. As
elementary school girls, boys were not an issue, studying was. But
when they hit puberty, suddenly girls do not want to do better than
boys in class, and the old "no one likes a smarty pants" issue,
believe it or not, seems to still prevail.

That wasn't the attitude when/where I attended high school (1970s). When I
was an undergrad physics major, I, like all physics majors, had to
take lots of upper-level mathematics courses in addition to all
the physics coursework. There were very, very few female physics
majors, even though they were already being encouraged to go into
the sciences at that time. And the few I encountered were never
the top drawer students in the class. However, there were larger
numbers of females in some of the math courses, and some of them were
good students. I remember one in particular who had a real flair for
the proofs that are such a big part of the branch of math called linear
algebra. She aced that senior-level course. I remember another
sharp girl in my one-variable integral calculus class that came early
in my college years. So, I speak from real experience on this.
But I believe that, generally, the average male student in those
math courses was better than the average female.

Another observation I made was that women generally have a much harder
time *applying* what they've learned in class to "real world" applications.

---------

"NoPoliticsHere" wrote in message

This "information" you
saw two days ago supposedly citing just the opposite would immediately
come under suspicion to me, considering the politics of the last
couple of decades especially.

Then that makes your opinion subjective.

-c

Bottom line:

1) Develop meaningful performance standards applicable to relevant
skillsets for the positions; and
2) Follow them.

Of course, "the rub" is that if we actually did that in the military, we
would immediately see two huge problems:

1) Various special interest groups (sub groups of various
sex/gender/cultural/ethnic identities etc.) would perform equally to
everyone else meeting the same standards. Not actually a problem unless you
are some kind of a bigot.

and

2) At least temporarily, some of these same special interest groups would
appear to be "under-represented" in various positions. Ditto; also not
actually a problem unless you are some kind of a bigot.

What to do, what to do . . . oh my, what to do . . . ? The interesting
question for me is exactly why following 1) and 2) above should be so damn
controversial and "non PC."

Steve Swartz

(Note: the bigots perceiving either 1) or 2) to be a problem would actually
be very different people, more than likely.)






"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
" wrote

I like to fly, but I daresay I don't have whatever it takes to fly an
F-14 in carrier operations. But then, *statistically*, you don't
either. Very few people do.

From a former Naval Aviator.
Being an excellent fighter pilot and landing on an aircraft carrier
is much different than flying jetliners from JFK to ORD.
It's all about "Spatial Orientation", a trait that the Navy tested
for extesively during the training process.

I have posted this previously....here it is again.


The Brain, Richard Restak, M.D.

Based on the PBS Series, "The Brain"


Brain-Sex Differences: Are They Real?

Men generally have better spatial function
than women. This refers to the ability to
mentally visualize and maneuver objects
within three-dimensional space. But among
men who don't produce the male sex hor-
mone testosterone, spatial abilities are poorly
developed. According to Harvard neurolo-
gist Norman Geschwind, "It is very impor-
tant to stress that there are women who
have absolutely superb spatial function and
there are plenty of men whose spatial func-
tion is abysmal. But on the average, men
have better spatial function than women.
One practical consequence involves the dif-
ficulties some people experience in the
immediate discrimination between right and
left. In one study twice as many women as
men reported "frequent" problems in rap-
idly deciding about right-left issues (turning
right at a fork in the road, quickly respond-
ing when asked to raise the right or left
hand, and so on).
Other areas in which brain-sex differ-
ences play a prominent but by no means
exclusive role include:
Language facility. Females generally
speak earlier, learn foreign languages more
easily, and outperform males in tests of
verbal fluency.
Fine hand control. From an early age,
rapid sequential movements are performed
better by girls, who, as a result, exhibit
better penmanship than boys of the same
age.
Mathematical ability. Studies among
mathematically gifted students reveal that
males outnumber females among the supe-
rior achievers. According to Johns Hop-
kins researchers Camilla Benbow and Julian
Stanley, "We favor the hypothesis that sex
differences in achievement in and attitude
toward mathematics result from superior
male mathematical ability, which may in
turn be related to greater male ability in
spatial tasks."
Dyslexia, stuttering, delayed speech, au-
tism, hyperactivity...each of these neuro-
behavioral disorders occurs with greater
frequency in males.
Although the above sex differences are
well established, no one has as yet convinc-
ingly demonstrated an anatomic difference
between the brain structures of human
males and females. These behavioral differ-
ences may be the result of chemical changes
in brain function resulting from the influ-
ence of sex hormones in early prenatal
development.



Bob Moore

"Bob Moore" wrote in message

"But on the average, men
have better spatial function than women.

Fortunately, they don't make fighter pilots based on averages.

-c

On 26 Oct 2004 23:24:44 -0700, "
wrote in
.com::

But women can do ok, given the chance. Debby Rihn-Harvey, Svetlana
Kapanina, and Patty Wagstaff are examples of this.

Don't forget AE. :-)

" wrote in message roups.com...

I am all for that. Same standards, same opportunities. Women can and
do perform well in high-stress environments, generally speaking.

I know full well than some can, so yes I agree. And the competent
ones suffer because of the bad ones. People start painting them
all with the same brush, or however the saying goes.

I like to fly, but I daresay I don't have whatever it takes to fly an
F-14 in carrier operations. But then, *statistically*, you don't
either. Very few people do.

I'll admit that the only cockpit I've ever even SAT in was in a Herc
that was parked at an airshow. But as far as ever being able to fly
an F-14 in carrier operations, we'll never know. Maybe I'm a cocky
s.o.b. but I suspect I'd have had no problems, if I'd chosen that
route--always had great vision, kept very fit, good reflexes/coord., never
had an auto accident, and damn few--very few--tickets, so I'm also
disciplined to obey rules. But of course, I could've also been
a wash-out at it, I don't know. Truth is, I'd have been more interested
in flying the bigger stuff anyway.

But women can do ok, given the chance. Debby Rihn-Harvey, Svetlana
Kapanina, and Patty Wagstaff are examples of this.

Again, I have no doubts of this. But there's too much damn politics
at work today.

---------------