Who has started implementing the TSA rule?

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
. 4...
"David Brooks" wrote in
:

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty
since midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

snip

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number
of flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1
visa. Without this form and the visa, students will not get past
immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien
students unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These
schools are used to handling the necessary paperwork and this only
represents a bit more.

No doubt, if you restrict your analysis to nonresidents.

But the TSA has affirmed that their rule applies to resident aliens
also. We form 13% of the pilot population, and we not only got past
immigration, we have jobs and homes here. That means we form 13% of
the people walking on the door of every flight school and independent
instructor in the country (unless you want to reduce that number by
those who have foreign certificates; I haven't even thought whether
their conversion to a US certificate would be covered by the rule).

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!





How does a permanent resident student get an I-20?? He already lives and
works in this country.

I think you are agreeing with me. The IFR refers to all noncitizens and, in
the 12500 context, the visa issue is a red herring. The GA part of the rule
does not talk about visa issuance.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
. 4...
"David Brooks" wrote in
:

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty
since midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

snip

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number
of flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1
visa. Without this form and the visa, students will not get past
immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien
students unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These
schools are used to handling the necessary paperwork and this only
represents a bit more.

No doubt, if you restrict your analysis to nonresidents.

But the TSA has affirmed that their rule applies to resident aliens
also. We form 13% of the pilot population, and we not only got past
immigration, we have jobs and homes here. That means we form 13% of
the people walking on the door of every flight school and independent
instructor in the country (unless you want to reduce that number by
those who have foreign certificates; I haven't even thought whether
their conversion to a US certificate would be covered by the rule).

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!





How does a permanent resident student get an I-20?? He already lives and
works in this country.

I think you are agreeing with me. The IFR refers to all noncitizens and,
in
the 12500 context, the visa issue is a red herring. The GA part of the
rule
does not talk about visa issuance.

Wrong the visa is not a red herring at all. Visas apply to all types of
training irrespective of the size of the aircraft.
The IFR does actually refer to visas as one of the requirements for non
resident aliens. Resident aliens have no need of a visa as they already have
leave to reside in the US.

Here is a link about the need for a visa which is absolute. The IFR from the
TSA just puts bells and whistles on the process.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=65838

Here is an extract from a DHS site which does mention visas

Alien Flight Student Program Overview:

Flight training for foreign pilots, foreign student pilots, and other non-US
citizens (e.g. green card holders):

a.. Flight schools may not start flight training (aircraft or flight
simulator) until the following have been accomplished:
a.. Photo of the pilot or student taken "when the candidate arrived at
the flight school for training" must be submitted to TSA. (You can't arrive
with photos in your wallet)
b.. Pilots and students must submit required background check
information on a form available on-line at:

https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov
This may be submitted from their overseas location prior to entering the
US for training.

c.. Pilots and students must submit fingerprints (10-fingers) to TSA.
The American Association of Airport Executives (AAAE) is the clearinghouse
for all fingerprint submissions to TSA. Information on their procedures can
be obtained at 703-797-2550. There are currently no procedures in place for
pilots or students to have their fingerprints taken at a foreign location.
d.. Flight schools will obtain a web access code from their local FSDO,
then submit to TSA information that the pilot or student wants to start
flight training and the type of training requested.
e.. Pilots and students must provide the flight school with a current
and valid passport and visa, if appropriate.
b.. Flight training (aircraft or flight simulator) may begin immediately
upon submission of all required items to TSA and AAAE.
c.. Flight training will be immediately terminated TSA notifies flight
school to cease training.
d.. Flight training not started within 180-days from submission of
required items to TSA and AAAE voids all submitted information and the
applicant must resubmit all the information.
e.. The flight school must maintain a copy of the appropriate documents on
file for a minimum of 5 years.
Contact Information
For questions on the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP), please contact the
AFSP Help Desk at 703-542-1222. E-mail questions are also being accepted at: