Co-pilot error caused AA 587 crash

Al Gerharter wrote:

I think this was their first opportunity to land. The aircraft was well
outside the envelope when a recovery ensued. I don't know what would have
happened to an airbus. This thing had shoe prints on the instrument panel.
Al

On the landing question, I was struck by this section, on page 5.

"At 1018:42, Flight 006 requested clearance to climb. Oakland ARTCC
initially cleared it to climb to FL 200, and, at 1019:17, Flight 006
told the ARTCC that "we can control the aircraft." Oakland ARTCC asked
the flight if it wanted to divert to San Francisco, and, at 1019:49,
Flight 006 answered "Condition normal now," and that it would continue
to Los Angeles."

In respect of the evelope issue, my memory said that the upset was
caused by turbulence. In this case, it appears to have been crew
mishandling. In the circumstances, I have to wonder whether an FBW
aircraft would have got into the position of needing an outside the
envelope recovery in the first place.

Sylvia.

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
u...


Al Gerharter wrote:

I think this was their first opportunity to land. The aircraft was well
outside the envelope when a recovery ensued. I don't know what would have
happened to an airbus. This thing had shoe prints on the instrument
panel. Al

On the landing question, I was struck by this section, on page 5.

"At 1018:42, Flight 006 requested clearance to climb. Oakland ARTCC
initially cleared it to climb to FL 200, and, at 1019:17, Flight 006 told
the ARTCC that "we can control the aircraft." Oakland ARTCC asked the
flight if it wanted to divert to San Francisco, and, at 1019:49, Flight
006 answered "Condition normal now," and that it would continue to Los
Angeles."


Wow, I hadn't read that. They did indeed declare an emergency, and land in
SFO. At least that's where I was when I was looking at it. Yea, big place on
the water of the bay, big gold bridge in the background, yep that's it. The
guys in the tower said that each time he pitched up a little on final, they
got a big roll out of it as well.



In respect of the evelope issue, my memory said that the upset was caused
by turbulence. In this case, it appears to have been crew mishandling. In
the circumstances, I have to wonder whether an FBW aircraft would have got
into the position of needing an outside the envelope recovery in the first
place.

Sylvia.

Then there was the Air Transat from Canada to Spain, that developed a
fuel leak, and the "automatic" system sent all of the fuel
into the leaking tank trying to balance the aircraft. They flamed out, and
landed in the Azores dead stick. Al

Al Gerharter wrote:

Then there was the Air Transat from Canada to Spain, that developed a
fuel leak, and the "automatic" system sent all of the fuel
into the leaking tank trying to balance the aircraft. They flamed out, and
landed in the Azores dead stick.

Actually, it was the pilots who didn't follow the checklist but rather
cross fed the fuel to the leak manually. Legends never die. Eager top
hear your next one.

Stefan

Al Gerharter wrote:
"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
u...


Al Gerharter wrote:


I think this was their first opportunity to land. The aircraft was well
outside the envelope when a recovery ensued. I don't know what would have
happened to an airbus. This thing had shoe prints on the instrument
panel. Al

On the landing question, I was struck by this section, on page 5.

"At 1018:42, Flight 006 requested clearance to climb. Oakland ARTCC
initially cleared it to climb to FL 200, and, at 1019:17, Flight 006 told
the ARTCC that "we can control the aircraft." Oakland ARTCC asked the
flight if it wanted to divert to San Francisco, and, at 1019:49, Flight
006 answered "Condition normal now," and that it would continue to Los
Angeles."



Wow, I hadn't read that. They did indeed declare an emergency, and land in
SFO. At least that's where I was when I was looking at it. Yea, big place on
the water of the bay, big gold bridge in the background, yep that's it. The
guys in the tower said that each time he pitched up a little on final, they
got a big roll out of it as well.



In respect of the evelope issue, my memory said that the upset was caused
by turbulence. In this case, it appears to have been crew mishandling. In
the circumstances, I have to wonder whether an FBW aircraft would have got
into the position of needing an outside the envelope recovery in the first
place.

Sylvia.


Then there was the Air Transat from Canada to Spain, that developed a
fuel leak, and the "automatic" system sent all of the fuel
into the leaking tank trying to balance the aircraft. They flamed out, and
landed in the Azores dead stick. Al

Do you two just pull this stuff out of your asses or what?

Al Gerharter wrote:
Then there was the Air Transat from Canada to Spain, that developed a
fuel leak, and the "automatic" system sent all of the fuel
into the leaking tank trying to balance the aircraft.

It wasn't the automatic system. The pilots made the conscious decision to
transfer fuel from the left tank to the right tank, despite transport canada
regulation that on etops aircraft, preserving fuel in the wing with the
functioning engine was paramount.