Female pilot accident rates

" wrote in message roups.com...
NoPoliticsHere wrote:
It was just my OBSERVATION that in numerous
newsworthy crashes in the recent past, a woman has been in the
cockpit.
When I also combine my observation with the FACT of the
gender/race-based
quota system in this country, can't you see how easy it is to connect
dots?
Probably not I'm sure.

-------------------

I am not a fan of quota systems of any kind- I think they ultimately do
a disservice to those they purport to help.

Agreed.

What you have done here is begun with a supposition (women are hired on
the basis of political correctness and not competence) and then worked
backwards in order support that supposition.

No, what I have done is claim that ***SOME*** women and minorities are hired
when their gender and/or race takes on more importance than their competence.
It is hard to believe that you *still* miss my point.

That is the worst sort of
analysis possible. Furthermore, you attempted to present this faulty
argument in a forum that deals with a subject you admittedly know
nothing about. If you wish to be taken seriously- here or in life- you
must think things through objectively. You have, it would appear,
failed to do so.

And perhaps you could improve your reading comprehension.

---------------------

"John Mazor" wrote in message ...

So do you stand by, or now reject, your hypothesis that your observations
about accidents support a conclusion that because of PC, there are
proportionately more incompetent women pilots than men pilots.

Yes, I do stand behind it. The evidence is quite compelling in support
of the idea that there would be a higher percentage of incompetent
female/minority pilots, considering the political factors involved,
which I have illustrated to you through real-life, real-world cases;
which include the words of a veteran airline pilot who has spine enough
to speak frankly on the subject.

I cannot PROVE anything because I am not privy to any good, serious
statistics on this, if they even exist. But I noticed in the writings
of the 747 captain that airline pilots apparently even have a term
for these incompetent female pilots who've been hired by the
airline: "weak sister" pilots. So tell me, just what did he mean
by that?

-------------------------

On 31 Oct 2004 09:45:55 -0800,
(NoPoliticsHere) wrote:

"John Mazor" wrote in message ...

So do you stand by, or now reject, your hypothesis that your observations
about accidents support a conclusion that because of PC, there are
proportionately more incompetent women pilots than men pilots.

Yes, I do stand behind it. The evidence is quite compelling in support
of the idea that there would be a higher percentage of incompetent
female/minority pilots, considering the political factors involved,
which I have illustrated to you through real-life, real-world cases;
which include the words of a veteran airline pilot who has spine enough
to speak frankly on the subject.

I cannot PROVE anything because I am not privy to any good, serious
statistics on this, if they even exist. But I noticed in the writings
of the 747 captain that airline pilots apparently even have a term
for these incompetent female pilots who've been hired by the
airline: "weak sister" pilots. So tell me, just what did he mean
by that?

And, in research, what you have been stating is referred to as
"anecdotal evidence"---one or two or even a dozen credible observers
make statements regarding individual events which are then stretched
to become generalizations of a class. In a different area of
discrimination this might be called stereotyping.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On 31 Oct 2004 09:45:55 -0800,
(NoPoliticsHere) wrote:

"John Mazor" wrote in message
...

So do you stand by, or now reject, your hypothesis that your
observations
about accidents support a conclusion that because of PC, there are
proportionately more incompetent women pilots than men pilots.

Yes, I do stand behind it. The evidence is quite compelling in support
of the idea that there would be a higher percentage of incompetent
female/minority pilots, considering the political factors involved,
which I have illustrated to you through real-life, real-world cases;
which include the words of a veteran airline pilot who has spine enough
to speak frankly on the subject.

I cannot PROVE anything because I am not privy to any good, serious
statistics on this, if they even exist. But I noticed in the writings
of the 747 captain that airline pilots apparently even have a term
for these incompetent female pilots who've been hired by the
airline: "weak sister" pilots. So tell me, just what did he mean
by that?

And, in research, what you have been stating is referred to as
"anecdotal evidence"---one or two or even a dozen credible observers
make statements regarding individual events which are then stretched
to become generalizations of a class. In a different area of
discrimination this might be called stereotyping.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

The problems as I see it that the observation that protected class, female
and minority, may be less qualiifed it based on anecdotal evidence. Yet,
I suspect that political consideration prevent any statistical evidence from
being available. So anecdotal evidence may be all that exists.

There is a problem with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
mentality, and thats the assumption that a proportional number of qualified
protected class members in fact do exist. This is an assumtion which has
not been proven and is politically imposible to challenge. From the
biological perspective no two groups are have equal abilities in anything.
Sprinters tend to be black. Swimmers white, and garbage men male.

The difference is that we don't have the EEOC attempting for force
proportional equity on to basketball players or garbage men. If the EEOC
did the result might be equally absurd.

David

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On 31 Oct 2004 09:45:55 -0800,
(NoPoliticsHere) wrote:

"John Mazor" wrote in message
...

So do you stand by, or now reject, your hypothesis that your
observations
about accidents support a conclusion that because of PC, there are
proportionately more incompetent women pilots than men pilots.

Yes, I do stand behind it. The evidence is quite compelling in support
of the idea that there would be a higher percentage of incompetent
female/minority pilots, considering the political factors involved,
which I have illustrated to you through real-life, real-world cases;
which include the words of a veteran airline pilot who has spine enough
to speak frankly on the subject.

I cannot PROVE anything because I am not privy to any good, serious
statistics on this, if they even exist. But I noticed in the writings
of the 747 captain that airline pilots apparently even have a term
for these incompetent female pilots who've been hired by the
airline: "weak sister" pilots. So tell me, just what did he mean
by that?

And, in research, what you have been stating is referred to as
"anecdotal evidence"---one or two or even a dozen credible observers
make statements regarding individual events which are then stretched
to become generalizations of a class. In a different area of
discrimination this might be called stereotyping.

Actually, the term fits this situation, thanks for pointing it out.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

NoPoliticsHere wrote:
What you have done here is begun with a supposition (women are
hired on
the basis of political correctness and not competence) and then
worked
backwards in order support that supposition.

No, what I have done is claim that ***SOME*** women and minorities
are hired
when their gender and/or race takes on more importance than their
competence.
It is hard to believe that you *still* miss my point.

Claim=supposition. Shall I drag out Webster's?

And perhaps you could improve your reading comprehension.

See above. And don't bother with law school- you'd never pass the LSAT.

"John Mazor" wrote in message ...

Actually, the term fits this situation, thanks for pointing it out.

So I take it you disagree with Captain Boser when he states:

"I see the EEOC decrees to be the biggest threat against pilot
competency today, not because there aren't competent minority/female
pilots out there to be hired, but because quotas are imposed and
airlines sometimes have to lower their normal standards to achieve
those mandated numbers. If they don't, the EEOC sues them, costing
them many millions of dollars and it will result in the imposition of
even harsher mandates in the future to 'remedy their past
discrimination.'"

You neatly sidestepped this statement in my previous post. You
also sidestepped my question on what Captain Boser meant by
a "weak sister" pilot.

--------------------------

"David Lentz" wrote in message .. .

The problems as I see it that the observation that protected class, female
and minority, may be less qualiifed it based on anecdotal evidence. Yet,
I suspect that political consideration prevent any statistical evidence from
being available. So anecdotal evidence may be all that exists.

There is a problem with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
mentality, and thats the assumption that a proportional number of qualified
protected class members in fact do exist. This is an assumtion which has
not been proven and is politically imposible to challenge. From the
biological perspective no two groups are have equal abilities in anything.
Sprinters tend to be black. Swimmers white, and garbage men male.

The difference is that we don't have the EEOC attempting for force
proportional equity on to basketball players or garbage men. If the EEOC
did the result might be equally absurd.

I'd say you hit that nail squarely on the head!

--------------------------------

On 1 Nov 2004 06:04:58 -0800,
(NoPoliticsHere) wrote:

"John Mazor" wrote in message ...

Actually, the term fits this situation, thanks for pointing it out.

So I take it you disagree with Captain Boser when he states:

"I see the EEOC decrees to be the biggest threat against pilot
competency today, not because there aren't competent minority/female
pilots out there to be hired, but because quotas are imposed and
airlines sometimes have to lower their normal standards to achieve
those mandated numbers. If they don't, the EEOC sues them, costing
them many millions of dollars and it will result in the imposition of
even harsher mandates in the future to 'remedy their past
discrimination.'"

You neatly sidestepped this statement in my previous post. You
also sidestepped my question on what Captain Boser meant by
a "weak sister" pilot.

Actually, the Supreme Court has pretty much eliminated "quotas" and
variable standards for achieving affirmative action goals.

As for Capt. Boser's comments on "weak sister" pilots, I've
encountered the term quite often in the military (long before women
entered the community) and seen it applied to males in the squadron.

The important issue is to examine the entire class, not one or two
egregious examples. It has taken a long time in USAF/USN, but the
females in the Tacair community are currently well accepted and have
been proving themselves quite competent. (For a decrepit, old-school
dinosaur like myself to say that is a remarkable testimonial!)


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

Ed Rasimus wrote:

On 1 Nov 2004 06:04:58 -0800,
(NoPoliticsHere) wrote:

"John Mazor" wrote in message ...

Actually, the term fits this situation, thanks for pointing it out.

So I take it you disagree with Captain Boser when he states:

"I see the EEOC decrees to be the biggest threat against pilot
competency today, not because there aren't competent minority/female
pilots out there to be hired, but because quotas are imposed and
airlines sometimes have to lower their normal standards to achieve
those mandated numbers. If they don't, the EEOC sues them, costing
them many millions of dollars and it will result in the imposition of
even harsher mandates in the future to 'remedy their past
discrimination.'"

You neatly sidestepped this statement in my previous post. You
also sidestepped my question on what Captain Boser meant by
a "weak sister" pilot.

Actually, the Supreme Court has pretty much eliminated "quotas" and
variable standards for achieving affirmative action goals.

As for Capt. Boser's comments on "weak sister" pilots, I've
encountered the term quite often in the military (long before women
entered the community) and seen it applied to males in the squadron.

I've always assumed that the terms were applied in a gender-irrelevant fashion, but would
'weak sister' be a more polite way of calling a pilot a 'Whiskey Delta', or are they separate
categories?

Guy