Comprehensive security

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
[...]
No one can take freedom from a country as great as this one but we are
free to give it up.

Interesting timing for your post. I, of course, wholeheartedly agree with
everything you've said. All bin Laden and his folks did was to knock down a
couple of buildings. It's our own government, and our own citizens for that
matter, who have done the bulk of the damage. Just as you properly point
out.

And then, just today I read this article providing a more in-depth summary
of the new bin Laden video recording:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6387377/

In it, bin Laden basically says "it's easy to manipulate the US government
into destroying itself and its own country" and then describes the many ways
that he and his group has done so. Sadly, he is actually correct.

The only question now is, will our government and citizenship wake up and
smell the coffee? Or will they do the typical "human nature" thing and just
dig in harder, refusing the accept that there might actually be some truth
in what bin Laden says, when he discusses how easily the US citizens are
fooled into sacrificing their own rights and economic well-being?

I'm trying to be optimistic, but frankly...it's difficult.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
[...]
No one can take freedom from a country as great as this one but we are
free to give it up.

Interesting timing for your post. I, of course, wholeheartedly agree with
everything you've said.

I also have to agree.

I'm trying to be optimistic, but frankly...it's difficult.

I'm finding it impossible.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"Peter Duniho" wrote:
The only question now is, will our government and citizenship wake up and
smell the coffee? Or will they do the typical "human nature" thing and
just
dig in harder, refusing the accept that there might actually be some truth
in what bin Laden says, when he discusses how easily the US citizens are
fooled into sacrificing their own rights and economic well-being?

I'm trying to be optimistic, but frankly...it's difficult.

Polls showing that most Americans have confidence in Bush and his policies
in the "War On Terrorism" give me a dismal outlook, as well.

Sadly, Kerry seems to have no ideas that differ in any substantial way from
the Bush administration's, although one hopes he may have better sense than
to hand al Qaeda a massive propaganda victory like the war in Iraq.
--
Dan

"Shut up! Shut up!"
- Bill O'Reilly

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
[...]
Sadly, Kerry seems to have no ideas that differ in any substantial way
from
the Bush administration's

Agreed...you'll note in my post that I place plenty of blame with US
citizens. Bush presided over the recent events, and indeed his
administration is mostly responsible for the egregious errors and
misinformation that resulted in our situation in Iraq. But in terms of the
overall future of this country, domestic policy issues such as the Patriot
Act and the Department of Homeland Security are at least as significant,
probably more so. And so far, those win high, bipartisan approval.

We're doing ourselves in, and it can't all be blamed on Bush. Nor is it
really all that obvious that Kerry would have handled things much
differently (in spite of what he says now).

That said, our best hope for reconciliation with the rest of the world, to
help us get ourselves out of the mess Bush got us into is to not reelect
him. I obviously can't say whether this blog represents the majority
opinion amongst our potential allies --
http://barlow.typepad.com/barlowfrie...ting_kerr.html -- but
I'd say there's an extremely high chance that it does. It certainly does a
fair job of reflecting my own views. My favorite quote (from a German
citizen): "We can forgive you for electing him once. As we ought to know,
any electorate can make a tragic mistake. But if you elect him twice, we
will start fearing you Americans as much as we currently fear your
government."

Anyway, we're just hours away from knowing how many more weeks or months it
will take before we know who's going to be our next President.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote:
That said, our best hope for reconciliation with the rest of the
world, to help us get ourselves out of the mess Bush got us into is to
not reelect him. I obviously can't say whether this blog represents
the majority opinion amongst our potential allies --
http://barlow.typepad.com/barlowfrie...ting_kerr.html --
but I'd say there's an extremely high chance that it does. It
certainly does a fair job of reflecting my own views.

Yep; that's a very cogent summation of the reasons I voted for Kerry
today. But as Barlow says, it's disturbing that the Kerry crowd isn't
running away with this one. This should be a slam dunk - are they going
to be able to do anything right if they win?

Anyway, we're just hours away from knowing how many more weeks or
months it will take before we know who's going to be our next
President.

Regiments of lawyers are mobilizing as we write...
--
Dan

"Shut up! Shut up!"
- Bill O'Reilly

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
Yep; that's a very cogent summation of the reasons I voted for Kerry
today. But as Barlow says, it's disturbing that the Kerry crowd isn't
running away with this one. This should be a slam dunk - are they going
to be able to do anything right if they win?

Disturbing, yes. I'm not sure it's as much the fault of Kerry's campaign
(though of course partly) as it is for the human tendency to simply ignore
new facts when they are presented, especially when accepting those new facts
would involve admitting an error in judgment. A recent Gallup poll revealed
a disturbing level of ignorance in the American electorate, and especially
among Republicans (i.e. Bush supporters).

Just within the last month, Gallup reported that 42% surveyed *still*
believe that Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks, with that figure only
dropping by 10 points to 32% for the question of whether Hussein had
*personally* planned the attacks. Restricting the "involved" question to
just Republicans, the number climbs to 62%!

The same poll showed a number of other false beliefs, with similar
demographics (i.e. Bush supporters being much more likely to have ignored
factual reports contradicting Bush's false claims, choosing instead to
believe statements already proved to be false).

In the face of that sort of willful ignorance, it's no surprise that so many
people are bound and determined to stick with their horse, no matter how
obviously it's ready for the glue plant. Kerry's campaign as well as the
media can point over and over to all sorts of errors and outright lies by
the Bush administration, but the people who need to hear and believe it the
most are the least likely to bother to listen, never mind take the
information seriously.

Pete

In article , "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

That said, our best hope for reconciliation with the rest of the world,

Is it really important what the rest of the world thinks?

Are we not a sovereign nation?

--
Bob Noel
Seen on Kerry's campaign airplane: "the real deal"
oh yeah baby.

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
Is it really important what the rest of the world thinks?

It's only important if we want to get along with the rest of the world, and
to enjoy the assistance of the rest of the world. Whether those are things
you find important, I can't say. Somehow, I doubt you do.

But many of us do, and I personally find the "we'll just go it on our own"
attitude repugnantly ignorant.

Are we not a sovereign nation?

Of course we are. So what? We aren't a sovereign nation in a vacuum.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote:
Yep; that's a very cogent summation of the reasons I voted for Kerry
today. But as Barlow says, it's disturbing that the Kerry crowd
isn't running away with this one. This should be a slam dunk - are
they going to be able to do anything right if they win?

Disturbing, yes. I'm not sure it's as much the fault of Kerry's
campaign (though of course partly) as it is for the human tendency to
simply ignore new facts when they are presented, especially when
accepting those new facts would involve admitting an error in
judgment. A recent Gallup poll revealed a disturbing level of
ignorance in the American electorate, and especially among Republicans
(i.e. Bush supporters).

Just within the last month, Gallup reported that 42% surveyed *still*
believe that Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks, with that
figure only dropping by 10 points to 32% for the question of whether
Hussein had *personally* planned the attacks. Restricting the
"involved" question to just Republicans, the number climbs to 62%!

The same poll showed a number of other false beliefs, with similar
demographics (i.e. Bush supporters being much more likely to have
ignored factual reports contradicting Bush's false claims, choosing
instead to believe statements already proved to be false).

In the face of that sort of willful ignorance, it's no surprise that
so many people are bound and determined to stick with their horse, no
matter how obviously it's ready for the glue plant. Kerry's campaign
as well as the media can point over and over to all sorts of errors
and outright lies by the Bush administration, but the people who need
to hear and believe it the most are the least likely to bother to
listen, never mind take the information seriously.

I know you're just trying to cheer me up, Pete, thanks.

Perhaps nothing ever changes: most people want to be led, not educated.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
I know you're just trying to cheer me up, Pete, thanks.

Sorry about that. On the bright side, and at least a little related to my
posts, I found out yesterday that a friend of mine, in his late 30's, did
not actually know the correct pronounciation of the name "Eeyore" (he
pronounced it "I-ore"). I thought that was kind of funny.

Perhaps nothing ever changes: most people want to be led, not educated.

True...I don't think this is anything really new. Reminds me of an exchange
between my grandfather and me nearly two decades ago in which he was
impressed by my cartoon stationery that had a bunch of sheep all heading
over a cliff, except for a lone one in the middle of the rush, heading the
other way crying out "I've got to be me!" Never mind that the stationery
was actually a Far Side cartoon of lemmings, not sheep...his point about
most people being like sheep was still very much true.

For what it's worth, in spite of my apparent cynicism, my belief that this
*isn't* anything new actually gives me a somewhat optimistic view on the
whole thing. That is, on the whole as humanity we've been making progress
toward a better world, not a worse one. That's in spite of these inherent
flaws in human nature.

These flaws have always been with us, ever since there have been humans, and
somehow we manage to work past them. It often takes a long time, but it
does eventually happen. Here too, I believe that even if willful ignorance
carries the day, in the long run we will eventually turn back around and
start heading the right direction again. Today's election is completely
inconsequential in that respect.

Pete