A newbie doubt, if it's ok...

Just wondering where you fly Greg? Snow is a fact of life in the north.

We have had at our airport (3CK) a couple of people slide off the runway
when there is blowing snow and/or some ice.
The snow removal crews do the best they can (better than the roads) but we
still deal with slippery runways during the winter. In these conditions you
really learn that the flight does not end until the engine is shut down.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO
MI-150972
PP-ASEL-IA

Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI
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"I can accept that Bush won the election. What I have a hard time
swallowing is that I live in a country where more than half the
population is willfully ignorant, politically obstinate, religiously
prejudiced, and embarrassingly gullible."

-------------------------------------
"Greg Butler" wrote in message
. ..

why is it that we don't ever hear of aircraft skidding and going
off-track while taxiing or even during takeoff/landing? Is the lack of
such incidents only because of the meticulousness of ice clearance by
airport authorities?

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and
yes
they are meticulously cleared at major airports.

"SFM" wrote in message

Just wondering where you fly Greg? Snow is a fact of life in the north.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Read the post. He said, "Is a non-aviator airing a doubt ok with you
folks?"

More clear now?
--
Jim in NC



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The original post was the non-flyer, Greg was one of the respondents to that
non-flyer question. The first poster had a double () indent and the Greg's
post had a single() indent. Therefore the assumption is that since Greg did
not say he was not a pilot and made a statement about what a pilot would do
and not do that he is a pilot. He states in further messages in the thread
that he is indeed a pilot.

See below.

"Greg Butler" wrote in message
. ..

why is it that we don't ever hear of aircraft skidding and going
off-track while taxiing or even during takeoff/landing? Is the lack of
such incidents only because of the meticulousness of ice clearance by
airport authorities?

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and
yes
they are meticulously cleared at major airports.



It was clear to me in the first place. Is it clear to you now? Happy to help
explain usenet posts for you such that you may not be confused in the
future, it has happened to all of us at sometime.


Happy flying

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO
MI-150972
PP-ASEL-IA

Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI
Instructor Yahoo Group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/join
-----------------------------------
Catch the wave!
www.hamwave.com


"I can accept that Bush won the election. What I have a hard time
swallowing is that I live in a country where more than half the
population is willfully ignorant, politically obstinate, religiously
prejudiced, and embarrassingly gullible."

-------------------------------------
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"SFM" wrote in message

Just wondering where you fly Greg? Snow is a fact of life in the north.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Read the post. He said, "Is a non-aviator airing a doubt ok with you
folks?"

More clear now?
--
Jim in NC



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(Ramapriya) wrote in news:30a8759c.0411041049.2c558a22
@posting.google.com:

Hi there,

Is a non-aviator airing a doubt ok with you folks?

I know cars and trucks tend to skid even at low speeds in sleet and on
ice, with braking often proving ineffectual. This leaves me wondering
why is it that we don't ever hear of aircraft skidding and going
off-track while taxiing or even during takeoff/landing? Is the lack of
such incidents only because of the meticulousness of ice clearance by
airport authorities?

Look forward to a comment on this from you experienced folks

Cheers,

Ramapriya


You've had a number of good responses having mostly to do with the
mechanics of the airplane, and I think that's important to recognize and
understand. But I think there is more, too...

Most public-use runways in the US are at least 2500' long (that's about 1/2
mile) and even many small airports have runways between 3000' and 6000'
long (6000' is over 1 mile). The runways are generally very straight and
very level.

Even Single Engine piston airplanes can use back elevator and flaps to
increase drag and reduce speed without brakes and without reverse
thrusters. If the runway is long enough, the plane can coast to nearly a
complete stop without ever using the brakes. A car can too, but we're not
trained to coast our cars to a full stop on a highway when a curve is
coming up, or a snow bank steers you toward the guardrail, or the car 2
seconds in front of you starts to slow down. You're rarely 2 seconds away
from the plane in front of you, and when you are, there are usually MANY
more options for getting around safely...

A road that is largely covered in snow, slush, and ice is dangerous to
drivers of both cars and planes. But I think many drivers feel unduly
secure in their cars. As they get some traction going, they start to push
the limits and pick up speed. They want to get the hell off these horrible
roads and get where they're going. Then, all of a sudden, they get a wake
up call when they start to feel a skid. Depending on a combination of luck,
experience, and skill, they either spin out and have an accident, or they
recover, and slow down for a while until they start to feel secure again
and the process starts over.

Most pilots attitude toward taxing is different. Taxiing is only at the
very beginning or end of the trip. They are not trying to get up to the
"speed" limit. They are generally focused on getting to their runway or
parking spot safely, not quickly.

Another factor is that if a driver is on a bad road on his way to work, he
probably has a long trip in these dangerous road conditions, which will
perpetuate the cycle of killer comfort. Pilots, spend most of their travel
time in the air, and only a very small percentage of time on the ground.
The ice, sleet, and snow on the ground have no bearing on the air time.
(Although ice and sleet in the air is a whole other conversation and can be
very dangerous.) Once the clouds move off, and maybe even the sun comes
out, a plane can fly very safely and comfortably in the air, while driving
conditions are still extremely risky.

Newps wrote in message ...
PJ Hunt wrote:

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and

yes

they are meticulously cleared at major airports.

There's an "airport" somewhere in the Northeast that is simply a runway
plowed on a lake. Ops on a snow covered runway are fun.


It's Alton Bay in New Hampshire. Seaplanes in summer, ice runway in winter.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/B18

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Just wondering where you fly Greg? Snow is a fact of life in the north.

You are right. I should have thought of my southern bias before posting.
They're always clear in Florida!

Another thing relates to the propulsion.
Note that cars have their accelration from the wheels, which
place a very high force on the surface through friction.
Sine plans, the force is applied to air, and exceeding the
coefficient of friciton on the "driving" wheels won't happen
due to driectly driving the wheels.

Turning is still pretty much the same (more or less).
But planes do slide.

Bigger planes have more pressure on the tires per square inch, and therefore
the force to overcome the added friction must be higher, too.

"SFM" wrote in message
...
The original post was the non-flyer, Greg was one of the respondents to
that
non-flyer question. The first poster had a double () indent and the
Greg's
post had a single() indent. Therefore the assumption is that since Greg
did
not say he was not a pilot and made a statement about what a pilot would
do
and not do that he is a pilot. He states in further messages in the thread
that he is indeed a pilot.


I see the problem, now. It is your asinine use of top posting. See, I
don't (and lots of others also) remember the name of the OP, so when you
ask Greg a question, it is out of context, as to the line and order of the
thread, because few (me included) will take the time to scroll and figure
the mess out.

Bottom posting makes more sense when replying to *parts* of a post,
especially when it is in answer to an older post.

And yes, I understand what and means, mr buttholier thanthou.
--
Jim in NC


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In article , SFM wrote:

Just wondering where you fly Greg? Snow is a fact of life in the north.

We have had at our airport (3CK) a couple of people slide off the runway
when there is blowing snow and/or some ice.
The snow removal crews do the best they can (better than the roads) but we
still deal with slippery runways during the winter. In these conditions you
really learn that the flight does not end until the engine is shut down.

Dontcha just love being blown sideways on a cold windy evening when the
melted snow from the daytime sun has refrozen into a continuous sheet
of ice across the taxiway?

Um...I've been to Alton Bay several times in the winter. They plow out a
3000' runway on the ice. I usually use about 1500' of it.

mike regish

"Greg Butler" wrote in message
. ..

why is it that we don't ever hear of aircraft skidding and going
off-track while taxiing or even during takeoff/landing? Is the lack of
such incidents only because of the meticulousness of ice clearance by
airport authorities?

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and
yes they are meticulously cleared at major airports.