Leaving the community

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:42:24 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

mike regish wrote:

It would if we didn't have religion indoctrinating hatred and bigotry from
day 1.

Nice excuse, but lacks creativity. I'll give it a D+. There are
cultures that have virtually no organized religion, but engage in things
such as cannibalism. Is that one of the moral values that evolution
produces?


Matt

And there is a recent christian culture that gassed and burned 6
million human beings.

Is that one of the moral values that religion produces?

wrote:
And there is a recent christian culture that gassed and burned 6
million human beings.

Is that one of the moral values that religion produces?

Actually, it was closer to 11 million. The 6M number refers to
a single religious group. There were other "undesireable" groups
that were "removed" in the interest of Purity.

On 23 Nov 2004 06:22:50 -0700, Blanche
wrote:

wrote:
And there is a recent christian culture that gassed and burned 6
million human beings.

Is that one of the moral values that religion produces?

Actually, it was closer to 11 million. The 6M number refers to
a single religious group. There were other "undesireable" groups
that were "removed" in the interest of Purity.



Well, look who's here.

Killfile not working?

wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:42:24 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:


mike regish wrote:


It would if we didn't have religion indoctrinating hatred and bigotry from
day 1.

Nice excuse, but lacks creativity. I'll give it a D+. There are
cultures that have virtually no organized religion, but engage in things
such as cannibalism. Is that one of the moral values that evolution
produces?


Matt


And there is a recent christian culture that gassed and burned 6
million human beings.

I'm not sure what a christian culture is, but a Christian culture didn't
do that. It was a Christian culture that came to the defense of the Jews.


Is that one of the moral values that religion produces?

Not any religion that I'm aware of. That was the moral value of a
tyrant, pure and simple. It is really easy to understand if you drop
your prejudice against religion and look at the facts.


Matt

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:16:34 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

And there is a recent christian culture that gassed and burned 6
million human beings.

I'm not sure what a christian culture is, but a Christian culture didn't
do that. It was a Christian culture that came to the defense of the Jews.


You need to pick up a good history book and spend a little time with
it.

wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:16:34 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:


And there is a recent christian culture that gassed and burned 6
million human beings.

I'm not sure what a christian culture is, but a Christian culture didn't
do that. It was a Christian culture that came to the defense of the Jews.



You need to pick up a good history book and spend a little time with
it.

Hardly. Show me one shred of evidence that says Hitler was a bona fide
Christian. Show me one shred of evidence that says Christianity
supports genocide of Jews.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote:
Hardly. Show me one shred of evidence that says Hitler was a bona fide
Christian. Show me one shred of evidence that says Christianity
supports genocide of Jews.

The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews
and their religion. In his book, _On the Jews and their Lies_, Luther set
the standard for anti-semitism in Protestant Germany up until World War 2.
Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther, often quoting his
works and beliefs.

"He who hears this name [God] from a Jew must inform the authorities, or
else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away."

"But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and
forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name?
They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this
in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. for our
knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that
they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it
before God."

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

Dan Luke wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

Hardly. Show me one shred of evidence that says Hitler was a bona fide
Christian. Show me one shred of evidence that says Christianity
supports genocide of Jews.


The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews
and their religion. In his book, _On the Jews and their Lies_, Luther set
the standard for anti-semitism in Protestant Germany up until World War 2.
Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther, often quoting his
works and beliefs.

"He who hears this name [God] from a Jew must inform the authorities, or
else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away."

"But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and
forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name?
They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this
in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. for our
knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that
they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it
before God."

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



OK, can you point out the passage that says you should kill Jews? I
read the above twice and just don't see it.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

OK, can you point out the passage that says you should kill Jews? I
read the above twice and just don't see it.

"But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and
forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's
name? They will still keep doing it in secret."

What do you suppose Luther is implying should be done about those nasty
Jews, if burning down their synagogues wasn't enough?

And just in case that lovely sentiment doesn't sufficiently impress you
that genocide marks many pages in Christian history, try this one:

(The following excerpt is from Las Casas' book _A Short Account Of The
Destruction Of the Indies_, Penguin Books, Edited and Translated by
Nigel Griffin.)

"They forced their way into native settlements, slaughtering everyone
they found there, including small children, old men, pregnant women, and
even women who had just given birth. ...They spared no one, erecting
especially wide gibbets on which they could string their victims up with
their feet just off the ground and then burn them alive thirteen at a
time, in honor of our Savior and the twelve Apostles, or tie dry straw
to their bodies and set fire to it. Some they chose to keep alive and
simply cut their wrists, leaving their hands dangling, saying to them:
'Take this letter' -- meaning that their sorry condition would as a
warning to those hiding in the hills...."

There's lots, lots more, if you care to look.