I want to buy a plane by year-end but they're not making it easy.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

It is probably too late now but when asked for financial information that
I
think is unjustified, I have always jsut said: "No, I am not going to
provide that". I am fairly certain that nobody with any real net worth
would disclose their financials to a salesman.


I work in sales. One of the first things you do, whether you're selling
cars, houses, or corporate software, is figure out whether the guy you're
talking to can spend the money to buy your product. The more it costs you to
dance with him, the more you want to qualify it.

You can usually tell one way or the other if someone has money. I once
worked in a fancy retail store and saw this guy walk in wearing ripped jeans
and a dirty T-shirt. No one else paid any attention to the guy because he
looked like a bum. As I walked past him I glanced at his wrist and saw a
Swiss watch probably worth more than the BMW that the guy in a suit next to
him drove. Needless to say the "bum" nobody wanted to deal with left with
$1000 of cigars. Shoes are another big giveaway. The average observer sees
three guys in suits. The skilled one sees one guy wearing Bally loafers and
two guys in department-store shoes.

There's also plenty of psychological "tells" that a smart salesperson knows
to look for. Do they look comfortable and at ease, or are they anxious
because they think they might be out of their league? How long do they take
before asking the price? If they ask right away they're either totally
serious or totally tire-kicking. I don't mind tire-kickers who know they
are, because they won't cost me valuable time. If I'm not busy I can chew
the fat with them for a while, then blow out if a real customer shows up.
It's the guy in between who spikes me. He spends an hour looking at it and
then decides in the end he needs to spend the money on new siding instead.

In real big-ticket items like cars or real estate, it's not unusual that you
really don't even see the smart and or wealthy buyer face-to-face until the
deal is closed. If they're buying a car they do it by faxing or calling the
sales manager directly, and if they're buying property, they often do so
through a buyer's agent. The biggest money is often the quietest.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...


SNIP

If they're buying a car they do it by faxing or calling the
sales manager directly, and if they're buying property, they often do so
through a buyer's agent. The biggest money is often the quietest.

-cwk.


So true. My mom is a secretary, and I doubt her last boss ever bought much
that he did not just ask her to get. She has called me a million times
asking what type of computer or gadget to get. Seriously, he would want a
new cell phone, laptop, or camera and we would decide for him and she would
charge it on his card.

When I was in the market for an aircraft, I flew (airline) from
San Jose, CA to New Mexico to test fly one potential aircraft, and
to Florida to test fly another. If you're really serious, distance
is not an issue ;-) If you were to simply show up at the Piper,
Tiger, or Cirrus factory, I'm sure they would consider you a worthy
enough prospect to justify a demo flight.

Alternatively, West Valley Flying Club @ PAO/SQL/HWD has nine (count 'em NINE)
Cirrus, 2 2000 Piper Archers, and a '79 Tiger for rent. For good
measure, there is also a Diamond DA-40 for rent @ SQL at another FBO.
And the December weather in here in Norcal is wonderful ;-)


On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:40:25 GMT, T.Roger wrote:
Where I train there are a few Cirrus' and no New Pipers or Tigers. Cirrus
has a presence because of their successful shares program but I'd need to
hook up with the share owners to rent. Not likely.

Yep, first hours PIC after PVT were at factory check out course. All
advised against it. You wouldn't believe insurance
premiums/deductable...But both Cirrus and Lancair beat a path to demo it
to him.

gatt wrote:
-
"Bill J" wrote in message


My student bought a Lancair before he had his ticket. No prob lem oh!


Wow, that's a lot of airplane for a new pilot, isn't it?

-c

On 2-Dec-2004, Andrew Gideon wrote:

We found another place and dealt with them. They treated us royally even
through we were renting some (by their standards) dinky little place. So
we used them when we bought our townhouse. And we used them again when
we bought our house.

At least two pairs of friends also used them on our recommendation, buying
fairly large expensive homes (one of which is downright incredible!).

They're still in business, BTW.


It's the same reason that smart FBOs, that plan to be around for a while,
offer good service to a young guy dropping by in need of just a few gallons
of avgas for his 172.
--
-Elliott Drucker

Matt Barrow wrote:

"T.Roger" wrote in message
m...

Any FEMALE Beech brokers out there that you know of?




Yeah, AAMOF! http://www.kansasaircraft.com

OK, any good looking female brokers... :-)

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
You can usually tell one way or the other if someone has money. I once
worked in a fancy retail store and saw this guy walk in wearing ripped
jeans
and a dirty T-shirt. No one else paid any attention to the guy because he
looked like a bum. As I walked past him I glanced at his wrist and saw a
Swiss watch probably worth more than the BMW that the guy in a suit next
to
him drove. Needless to say the "bum" nobody wanted to deal with left with
$1000 of cigars. Shoes are another big giveaway. The average observer sees
three guys in suits. The skilled one sees one guy wearing Bally loafers
and
two guys in department-store shoes.

A former boss of mine drove a five year old Buick, wore Sears clothes, a
Seiko $150 watch (a gift from his daughter) and when writing during a
meeting once I tesed him because he used a "Brakes Plus" BIC pen. His wife
had a simple, inexpensive wedding ring. He often wore jeans and cowboy
boots.

He was worth some $15million. And, no, he wasn't miserly at all.


In real big-ticket items like cars or real estate, it's not unusual that
you
really don't even see the smart and or wealthy buyer face-to-face until
the
deal is closed. If they're buying a car they do it by faxing or calling
the
sales manager directly, and if they're buying property, they often do so
through a buyer's agent. The biggest money is often the quietest.

Usually.

That's good to hear - Thanks.
The 4000 hours had to have lost them sales

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article ,
Aaron Coolidge wrote:

In rec.aviation.owning tony roberts wrote:
: Which Cirrus were you thinking of?
: It's a lot of cash to pay for something that isn't certified beyond 4000
: hours and can't spin - But that's a whole new thread - just sit back and
: watch

According to Rev 7 of the Cirrus TCDS (A00009CH), August 15th 2004, both
Cirrus models have an airframe life limit of 12,000 hours.

Couldn't agree more - however - the down side of a lose / lose situation is
that the client is one of the losers too - which is what we're trying to
work around.


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Cockpit Colin" wrote in message
...
Would it work to offer to pay for the flight with the condition that
your
money be refunded if you bought?

And if he didn't like the product?

Guess which people will be bitching the loudest when the GA markets sours
in
a couple of years.

Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

C Kingsbury wrote:

Big snip


In real big-ticket items like cars or real estate, it's not unusual that you
really don't even see the smart and or wealthy buyer face-to-face until the
deal is closed. If they're buying a car they do it by faxing or calling the
sales manager directly, and if they're buying property, they often do so
through a buyer's agent. The biggest money is often the quietest.

-cwk.


One day, while working in the yard in his old Navy boondockers, an old
tee shirt, and old ripped blue jeans, my younger brother decided it was
time to buy the Mercedes that he had always wanted. So, without
changing clothes, he stuck his check book in his hip pocket, jumped on
his motorcycle, and drove 30 miles to the nearest dealer.

As he walked in the dealership, he saw exactly the car he wanted- all
the options and even the right color. So he stood around with his
checkbook in hand trying to look like a customer. The salesmen, all
playing gin rummy at the counter, studiously ignored him. Finally,
after about ten minutes, one of them decided that this guy was not going
to leave until somebody talked to him. So the salesman walked over to
my brother and asked if he could help him.

My brother said, "Yes. I want to buy this automobile. How much is it?"

The salesman replied, "It is really expensive, and the upkeep is quite
high, too. But we have some really clean one owner used car out on the
lot. I would be happy to show them to you."

My brother said, "No. I want to buy this car. How much is it?"

The salesman again went through the nice clean used car bit.

My brother, now barely in control of his temper, coldly looked the
salesman in the eye and said, "I don't want a used car. I want to buy
this car. HOW MUCH IS IT?"

When the salesman started with the used car bit again, my brother left.
On the way back, he became more and more angry, so he stopped by our
father's house to tell him the story.

After hearing the whole story, my father said, "If you still want the
car, go home, put on a suit, and drive back down there in your
Rolls-Royce. I am sure that they will sell a car to anybody driving a
Rolls."

Postscript 1: He bought a BMW.

Postscript 2: Several years later, my brother was the lead CPA on the
staff doing the annual audit of guess what large automobile dealership.
After the closing conference, the owner asked if my brother had any
observations he might like to pass along, even beyond financial matters,
to help the owner in his business. My brother related this story. The
owner asked if he could still identify the salesman. My brother pointed
to a salesman visible through the office window. The owner sighed, and
then said, "It figures. He is my son-in-law."

Hank
Comanche N5903P