Radio 'altercation' with ATC

91.123 Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions. (b) Except in
an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC
instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.

Presumably, the approaching aircraft was in Class E airspace, which is
defined as controlled airspace. Doesn't that obligate the pilot to
follow ATC instructions given to him?

Even if it were Class G airpspace, it's a de facto "area in which air
traffic control is exercised," by the fact that the tower controller is
providing service, and the regulation applies.

It's a given that you have to establish 2-way communication (or make
prior arrangements) before you can enter Class D airspace, and it
follows that if you're not going in to the airspace, you don't need to
contact the controller.

.... but once a pilot contacts a controller, isnt' he obligated to
comply whether he's in that controller's jurisdiction or not?
I can't recall any regulation that indicates otherwise.

Brien K. Meehan wrote:
91.123 Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions. (b) Except in
an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC
instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.

Presumably, the approaching aircraft was in Class E airspace, which is
defined as controlled airspace. Doesn't that obligate the pilot to
follow ATC instructions given to him?

No, the class D tower has no more authority in class E as he does in
class G.



Even if it were Class G airpspace, it's a de facto "area in which air
traffic control is exercised," by the fact that the tower controller is
providing service, and the regulation applies.

Nope.



... but once a pilot contacts a controller, isnt' he obligated to
comply whether he's in that controller's jurisdiction or not?

No and the class D controller shouldn't be trying to control you outside
his airspace.

Newps wrote:

No, the class D tower has no more authority in class E as he does in
class G.

Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

Newps wrote:


No, the class D tower has no more authority in class E as he does in
class G.


Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?


Who says he DOES? Towers do not have authority outside the confines of
their airspace. Even Approach controls and centers do not have authority
outside their designated airspace.

Dave

Dave S wrote:
Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Who says he DOES?

91.123(b) does. If he's ATC, and he issues an instruction, this
regulation obliges you to comply. There's no indication here (or
anywhere that I'm aware of) that you have to be in "his airspace" in
order for his instruction to be authoritative.

Brien K. Meehan wrote:
Newps wrote:


No, the class D tower has no more authority in class E as he does in
class G.


Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Our rule book.

Newps wrote:
Brien K. Meehan wrote:
Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Our rule book.

I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?

On 11 Dec 2004 22:57:18 -0800, "Brien K. Meehan"
wrote in
.com::

Newps wrote:
Brien K. Meehan wrote:
Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Our rule book.

I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?

He's probably referring to FAA Order 7110.65:
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/ . However, he'll have to provide the
specifics.

Just go to chapter 7 of the .65 and you can see the rules for the
various airspaces.

Larry Dighera wrote:

On 11 Dec 2004 22:57:18 -0800, "Brien K. Meehan"
wrote in
.com::


Newps wrote:

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Our rule book.

I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?


He's probably referring to FAA Order 7110.65:
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/ . However, he'll have to provide the
specifics.

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

Newps wrote:

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?


Our rule book.


I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?

Nope, just like yours places no regulatory demands on me.