Class D Sucks

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

Jay, as has been pointed out here before, class D controllers do not
control air traffic.

The FARs say that class D is controlled airspace. They also say that you
have to obey ATC instructions. What are the tower controllers controlling
there if not air traffic? Ground controllers control ground traffic. They
are sometimes the same person as the tower controller, sometimes they are
not.

Class D towers do a lot more than sequencing. They can also keep you out of
their airspace, issue instructions to aircraft within their airspace and
expect to be obeyed (or know the reason why not) and so forth. They will
also issue advisories of other traffic and they will control the traffic
pattern.

The FARs say that class D is controlled airspace. They also say that you
have to obey ATC instructions. What are the tower controllers controlling
there if not air traffic?

They are not controlling air traffic in the sense of taking
responsibility for separation (which they do in IFR for example, and
perhaps in positive control areas - a controller will certainly jump
in and clarify)

That they can keep you out is true, but not relevant to my point (of
it being primarily a pilot's responsibility to see and avoid)

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
news
The FARs say that class D is controlled airspace. They also say that you
have to obey ATC instructions. What are the tower controllers
controlling
there if not air traffic?

They are not controlling air traffic in the sense of taking
responsibility for separation (which they do in IFR for example, and
perhaps in positive control areas - a controller will certainly jump
in and clarify)


I want to put to rest once and for all the idea that class D controllers do
not control air traffic, however. They do. They issue vectors, departure and
arrival instructions for both VFR and IFR traffic, and routing instructions
through their airspace for both VFR and IFR traffic. They also make an
attempt to maintain separation and controllers who fail that responsibility
have been found at least partially at fault in NTSB reports.

I agree with you that separation is primarily the pilot's responsibility,
but this is not a peculiarity of class D. It is true no matter what airspace
you are in.

I want to put to rest once and for all the idea that class D controllers
do
not control air traffic, however. They do. They issue vectors, departure
and
arrival instructions for both VFR and IFR traffic, and routing
instructions
through their airspace for both VFR and IFR traffic. They also make an
attempt to maintain separation and controllers who fail that
responsibility
have been found at least partially at fault in NTSB reports.

I agree with you that separation is primarily the pilot's responsibility,
but this is not a peculiarity of class D. It is true no matter what
airspace
you are in.

Last I remember, a CLASS D tower is a VFR tower.. they can only handle 1 IFR
aircraft at a time, and then it is on a relayed clearance from an IFR
facility, they cannot issue or change an IFR clearance without permission
from the IFR controlling facility.

A VFR tower cannot issue a "radar vector", they can provide recommended
headings to fly.

But then again, it's been more than a few years since I was on the other
side of the headset, sitting at the radar scope.

BT

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Q1vwd.31798$Ae.18996@fed1read05...

Last I remember, a CLASS D tower is a VFR tower..

Not necessarily.



they can only handle 1 IFR aircraft at a time, and then it is on a relayed
clearance from an IFR facility, they cannot issue or change an IFR
clearance without permission from the IFR controlling facility.


That's all true for VFR towers except for the part about handling only one
IFR aircraft at a time.



But then again, it's been more than a few years since I was on the other
side of the headset, sitting at the radar scope.


Apparently.

But then again, it's been more than a few years since I was on the other
side of the headset, sitting at the radar scope.


Apparently.

*Was that necessary?*

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Q1vwd.31798$Ae.18996@fed1read05...

A VFR tower cannot issue a "radar vector", they can provide recommended
headings to fly.


I said "vector" and "departure instructions," not "radar vector." If the
tower tells you to depart on left downwind it is not a "recommendation," it
is an ATC instruction that you are obligated to follow under 91.123(b). Some
class D towers have upgraded radar and they do issue radar vectors, by the
way.