How many in this club?

"gatt" wrote

I failed my Private because I used a private field as a
waypoint in my cross-country plan.

WHATTT.... No way! You can use a tree as a waypoint as
long as it can be identified from the airplane in flight.
Maybe you failed because you could not identify the "grass"
field as a waypoint, not because it was a "private" field.

Bob Moore

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:16:43 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

"gatt" wrote

I failed my Private because I used a private field as a
waypoint in my cross-country plan.

WHATTT.... No way! You can use a tree as a waypoint as
long as it can be identified from the airplane in flight.
Maybe you failed because you could not identify the "grass"
field as a waypoint, not because it was a "private" field.

Bob Moore

My feelings exactly. I used private fields for my waypoints on
several cross countries WITH the CFI in the right seat. The only
point he made is that sometimes the private fields are hard to spot.

Corky Scott

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:09:22 -0500, Corky Scott
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:16:43 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

"gatt" wrote

I failed my Private because I used a private field as a
waypoint in my cross-country plan.

WHATTT.... No way! You can use a tree as a waypoint as
long as it can be identified from the airplane in flight.
Maybe you failed because you could not identify the "grass"
field as a waypoint, not because it was a "private" field.

Bob Moore

My feelings exactly. I used private fields for my waypoints on
several cross countries WITH the CFI in the right seat. The only
point he made is that sometimes the private fields are hard to spot.

Hard to spot?
I took my check ride the morning after we had a couple inches of snow.
Almost all of my check points were invisible. I never did find most
of them, but by pointing to the map and finding other references I was
able to show I was where I thought I was.

The only reason I could find the Pinconing airstrip was two airplanes
parked outside and it took a relatively low pass to identify those.
The examiner was happy.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Corky Scott

"gatt" wrote

I failed my Private because I used a private field as a
waypoint in my cross-country plan.

"Private" does not necessarily mean "Grass". Just north of
my location in Tarpon Springs, FL, there were two private
airports, both with 3-4,000' of paved runway. Hidden Lake
and TampaBay Exec which has just recently closed.

Bob Moore

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:55:46 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

"gatt" wrote

I failed my Private because I used a private field as a
waypoint in my cross-country plan.

"Private" does not necessarily mean "Grass". Just north of
my location in Tarpon Springs, FL, there were two private
airports, both with 3-4,000' of paved runway. Hidden Lake
and TampaBay Exec which has just recently closed.

What'd they do with all the planes out at the Exec? That place was
really handy when the weather turned to crap when we were heading home
between Christmas and New years a few years ago.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Bob Moore

Roger wrote

What'd they do with all the planes out at the Exec?

Many went over to Zephyrhills and a few (me) to Pilot
Country. I thought that a lot would wind-up at Tampa
North, but they don't seem to have the necessary facilities.
The State appropriated funds to provide facilities at the
surrounding airports to accommodate the relocation.
I don't hold much hope for Tampa North and Clearwater Exec
due to residential development surrounding them.

Bob Moore

"Bob Moore" wrote in message

I failed my Private because I used a private field as a
waypoint in my cross-country plan.

WHATTT.... No way! You can use a tree as a waypoint as
long as it can be identified from the airplane in flight.
Maybe you failed because you could not identify the "grass"
field as a waypoint, not because it was a "private" field.

Specifically, the DE knew the owner of the private field. There was an
airstrip that was UNMARKED across a little creek from a field. My
instructor and I incorrectly assumed that the paved strip was the private
airfield on the section. It turns out otherwise; the actual airstrip was
simply a field; when the farmer wanted to fly, he put up his windsock and
mowed himself a runway in the appropriate direction. Because I
misidentified the airport by thinking the strip across the street was
[whatever the private field was called], he busted me.

-c

"gatt" wrote in message
...
[...] Because I
misidentified the airport by thinking the strip across the street was
[whatever the private field was called], he busted me.

Well, to be fair, that's different than you first described it. You failed
your checkride because you misidentified a waypoint. Not "because [you]
used a private field as a waypoint".

You just as easily could have misidentified a public airport, or you could
have passed your checkride had you correctly identified the private airport.
The choice of a waypoint you had difficulty identifying might have led to
the bust, but the mere choice of a private field didn't directly lead to
failing the checkride.

It's a good lesson though: waypoints should be easily identifiable. Two
similar airports right next to each other would not qualify. For sure, if
you ARE going to use an airport as a waypoint, you need to learn enough
about the airport to know whether you are looking at it or not when you
arrive. Including knowing whether it's paved or not.

Sounds like a fair bust to me. I'll bet you learned your lesson from that
though, and I'll bet there are some pilots who passed their checkride on the
first try who still need to learn that lesson.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

"gatt" wrote in message
...
[...] Because I
misidentified the airport by thinking the strip across the street was
[whatever the private field was called], he busted me.

Well, to be fair, that's different than you first described it. You
failed
your checkride because you misidentified a waypoint. Not "because [you]
used a private field as a waypoint".

Hmm. I don't see it quite this way. He called the waypoint the wrong
thing, but that's not a lot different than the "onion fields" north of CDW
that might in fact be tomatoe, grapes, or who knows what else.

He should have called it "road across street from farm with transient
runway", I suppose, but if he did spot the road, does it matter what it was
called?

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
gonline.com...
Hmm. I don't see it quite this way. He called the waypoint the wrong
thing, but that's not a lot different than the "onion fields" north of CDW
that might in fact be tomatoe, grapes, or who knows what else.

Huh? No...seems you misunderstood what he said. He picked airport A for
his waypoint, and then identified airport B as airport A.

It's kind of like if I'd picked Boeing Field in Seattle as my waypoint, and
then pointed out SeaTac (the Class B airport a few miles away), claiming it
was Boeing Field.

Had he selected a private airport, and then upon flying over it, correctly
identified the waypoint, but called it a public airport, that would be akin
to what you describe with respect to "onion fields" versus "tomatoes,
grapes, or who knows what else".

He should have called it "road across street from farm with transient
runway", I suppose, but if he did spot the road, does it matter what it
was
called?

He wasn't using the "road" as his checkpoint (which was actually another
airport, not a road). He was using an airport that he did not actually
find, even though he claimed to have to the examiner.

It's an unfortunate way to bust a checkride, as in this particular case it
would have had no significant effect on the outcome of the flight. But as a
technicality, it's perfectly valid, and had the other airport not been
there, a pilot trying to use the private airport as a waypoint may have
flown right past it without EVER having seen it. And it's not like he
picked the private airport knowing that there was a paved airport for him to
misidentify as the private airport.

As I said before, it's a very good example of why one needs to learn at
least some basic things about an airport to be used as a waypoint. In this
case, it's debatable whether the private airport is really all that suitable
as a waypoint anyway (since it sounds like it's hard to distinguish from all
the other rural property in the area), but for sure, a person using that or
any other airport as a waypoint needs to know whether the airport they are
looking for is paved or not.

Since from the air, many airports very similar to many others, it would be
much better to know not only whether the airport is paved, but also the
runway direction, location of any windsocks, location relative to any major
roads in the area, among the many distinguishing characteristics an airport
might have. Even knowing just "paved" versus "unpaved" might not be enough,
but for sure one ought to know THAT.

Pete