Class D Sucks

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

So what does it mean to an itinerant pilot?


It means the pilot ought to ask what it means.


It means nothing.



You're mistaken.


No, I'm not.


Of course you are, your position is absurd.



And your evidence, should I call it that, does not address the issue of
whether, to be specified, it must be specified in writing, which is the
issue in question.


How can it be otherwise?

How can it be otherwise?

Things were specified before the dawn of writing. When my wife asks
me to go to the store and pick up yogurt, but only the "plain", not
the vanilla, she doesn't write it down. Nonetheless, the kind of
yougurt she wants is specified. Likewise, when she asks me to pick up
chips, I know from experience that she means a specific kind of chips.
(and no, I'm not talking about Intel or Motorola either).

Three hundred years ago, there =were= no dictionaries, but the
meanings of words were still specified through usage.

That's how it can be otherwise. "Modified straight in" is specified
in this same manner, although it ends up specified only to the locals.
Itinerants are left with a question, which should be asked. While
this may seem wickedly dangerous, the tradeoff is that less air time
on a busy channel is used up saying "modified straight in" (which
most pilots there understand) than saying "start at the intersection
of I210 and I14 and follow the channel southbound towards the runway".
I am presuming that the actual flight path has a good reason, and
simply not using that flight path is not an option.

So what does it mean to an itinerant pilot?

It means the pilot ought to ask what it means.

It means nothing.

That =you= don't know something does not drain its meaning.

You're mistaken.

No, I'm not.

Of course you are, your position is absurd.


I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:49:20 GMT, Jose
wrote:


That's how it can be otherwise. "Modified straight in" is specified
in this same manner, although it ends up specified only to the locals.
Itinerants are left with a question, which should be asked. While
this may seem wickedly dangerous, the tradeoff is that less air time
on a busy channel is used up saying "modified straight in" (which
most pilots there understand) than saying "start at the intersection
of I210 and I14 and follow the channel southbound towards the runway".
I am presuming that the actual flight path has a good reason, and
simply not using that flight path is not an option.

I didn't mean to create a scrap here.

FYI, I'm not itinerant at KHWD, it's my home airport.

What I meant was, I was not given specific instructions, as is often
the case at Hayward. You are normall told to fly to a specific point,
don't break certain altitudes, etc.

When the controller said "modified straight in", and no other
instructions, I assumed that to mean that I could fly at pilot's
discretion. For those of you with more hours than I (300), please
correct me if I'm wrong.
John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

"john szpara" wrote in message
news:1103668495.fa76b9a7292886cc9ad13045780a10bb@t eranews...

I didn't mean to create a scrap here.

FYI, I'm not itinerant at KHWD, it's my home airport.

What I meant was, I was not given specific instructions, as is often
the case at Hayward. You are normall told to fly to a specific point,
don't break certain altitudes, etc.

When the controller said "modified straight in", and no other
instructions, I assumed that to mean that I could fly at pilot's
discretion. For those of you with more hours than I (300), please
correct me if I'm wrong.


Your interpretation is as correct as any other.

"Your interpretation is as correct as any other."

A bit of tongue-in-cheek, perhaps?

What I don't understand, is why don't people just ask for a clarification
when one is needed? It just doesn't seem like the airspace would be very
safe if everyone ran around doing what they THOUGHT someone instructed them
to do.

To coin a whatever: "If you have to ask, you might look stupid, but if you
don't ask, you might look dead. Take your choice".




"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"john szpara" wrote in message
news:1103668495.fa76b9a7292886cc9ad13045780a10bb@t eranews...

I didn't mean to create a scrap here.

FYI, I'm not itinerant at KHWD, it's my home airport.

What I meant was, I was not given specific instructions, as is often
the case at Hayward. You are normall told to fly to a specific point,
don't break certain altitudes, etc.

When the controller said "modified straight in", and no other
instructions, I assumed that to mean that I could fly at pilot's
discretion. For those of you with more hours than I (300), please
correct me if I'm wrong.


Your interpretation is as correct as any other.

What I don't understand, is why don't people just ask for a clarification
when one is needed? It just doesn't seem like the airspace would be very
safe if everyone ran around doing what they THOUGHT someone instructed
them
to do.

Precisely.

And what makes Class D so dangerous is that

a) Everyone THINKS they know what they're doing, when, in fact, many are
interpreting things differently
b) The controller THINKS he knows where everyone is.
c) The controller is often so busy that asking for clarification is
extremely difficult

The day I wrote about, getting a word in edgewise would have been
darned-near impossible for Mary...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Ecfyd.513$k25.152@attbi_s53...

Precisely.

And what makes Class D so dangerous is that



b) The controller THINKS he knows where everyone is.


The controller get his information from the pilots. Pilots are frequently
not where they THINK they are and provide bad information to the controller.

Congestion on the approach frequency is at the heart of the problem.
Often it is impossible to ask for a clarification - and sometimes near
impossible to get approach's attention at all. One time I wanted to
transition a Class C, and had to listen to a long-winded conversation
between the controller and a pilot. Since they wouldn't shut up long
enough for me to "get a word in edgewise", I had to deliberately
transmit on top of the other pilot to get the controller's attention.

The best solution, if you can, is to avoid those places altogether.
Most destinations have uncontrolled airports nearby, and I, for one,
will always choose to use them - unless there is some pressing
reason to use the towered airport. I used to be based at a Class C,
but chose to move to an uncontrolled airport twice as far from where
I lived - because I got sick and tired of the hassle.

David Johnson

My appologies, I didn't get the whole thred, however,

I am based at HWD, and have been there daily for almost a year and
have never heard a "Modified straight in" clerance. 'Hayweird' does
get some interesting traffic due to its proximity to OAK (Oakland
Intl, less than 10nm and between 29 and 27L/R. This is a new one on
me.

Jon Wanzer
CP ASEL / IA
AGI IGI (CFI / CFII soon-to-be)
San Jose,CA

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:35:56 -0800, john szpara
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:49:20 GMT, Jose
wrote:


That's how it can be otherwise. "Modified straight in" is specified
in this same manner, although it ends up specified only to the locals.
Itinerants are left with a question, which should be asked. While
this may seem wickedly dangerous, the tradeoff is that less air time
on a busy channel is used up saying "modified straight in" (which
most pilots there understand) than saying "start at the intersection
of I210 and I14 and follow the channel southbound towards the runway".
I am presuming that the actual flight path has a good reason, and
simply not using that flight path is not an option.

I didn't mean to create a scrap here.

FYI, I'm not itinerant at KHWD, it's my home airport.

What I meant was, I was not given specific instructions, as is often
the case at Hayward. You are normall told to fly to a specific point,
don't break certain altitudes, etc.

When the controller said "modified straight in", and no other
instructions, I assumed that to mean that I could fly at pilot's
discretion. For those of you with more hours than I (300), please
correct me if I'm wrong.
John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:24:40 GMT, Jon Wanzer
wrote:

My appologies, I didn't get the whole thred, however,

I am based at HWD, and have been there daily for almost a year and
have never heard a "Modified straight in" clerance. 'Hayweird' does
get some interesting traffic due to its proximity to OAK (Oakland
Intl, less than 10nm and between 29 and 27L/R. This is a new one on
me.


Hayward (weird) *is* a strange place to fly into. The ILS for 29 is 1
mile to the left, and the ILS for 27 is 2.5 miles to the right.
Oakland is basically two airports. It has class C airspace, which
starts barely a 1/2 mile off the end of HWD's runways.

SFO's class B airspace lays above. SJC's class C starts 10 miles
south. Flying anywhere in this area is like an obstacle course.

As for the "modified straight in", I didn't give any thought to it at
the time. I was given no other instructions, point to fly to, or
traffic to follow, so I flew a route at my discretion.
John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT