Class D Sucks

My appologies, I didn't get the whole thred, however,

I am based at HWD, and have been there daily for almost a year and
have never heard a "Modified straight in" clerance. 'Hayweird' does
get some interesting traffic due to its proximity to OAK (Oakland
Intl, less than 10nm and between 29 and 27L/R. This is a new one on
me.

Jon Wanzer
CP ASEL / IA
AGI IGI (CFI / CFII soon-to-be)
San Jose,CA

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:35:56 -0800, john szpara
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:49:20 GMT, Jose
wrote:


That's how it can be otherwise. "Modified straight in" is specified
in this same manner, although it ends up specified only to the locals.
Itinerants are left with a question, which should be asked. While
this may seem wickedly dangerous, the tradeoff is that less air time
on a busy channel is used up saying "modified straight in" (which
most pilots there understand) than saying "start at the intersection
of I210 and I14 and follow the channel southbound towards the runway".
I am presuming that the actual flight path has a good reason, and
simply not using that flight path is not an option.

I didn't mean to create a scrap here.

FYI, I'm not itinerant at KHWD, it's my home airport.

What I meant was, I was not given specific instructions, as is often
the case at Hayward. You are normall told to fly to a specific point,
don't break certain altitudes, etc.

When the controller said "modified straight in", and no other
instructions, I assumed that to mean that I could fly at pilot's
discretion. For those of you with more hours than I (300), please
correct me if I'm wrong.
John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:24:40 GMT, Jon Wanzer
wrote:

My appologies, I didn't get the whole thred, however,

I am based at HWD, and have been there daily for almost a year and
have never heard a "Modified straight in" clerance. 'Hayweird' does
get some interesting traffic due to its proximity to OAK (Oakland
Intl, less than 10nm and between 29 and 27L/R. This is a new one on
me.


Hayward (weird) *is* a strange place to fly into. The ILS for 29 is 1
mile to the left, and the ILS for 27 is 2.5 miles to the right.
Oakland is basically two airports. It has class C airspace, which
starts barely a 1/2 mile off the end of HWD's runways.

SFO's class B airspace lays above. SJC's class C starts 10 miles
south. Flying anywhere in this area is like an obstacle course.

As for the "modified straight in", I didn't give any thought to it at
the time. I was given no other instructions, point to fly to, or
traffic to follow, so I flew a route at my discretion.
John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

I started flying at RHV and everyone avoided SJC Carlie like the
plague. Then out of Oakland (North Field). And now HWD. I like HWD
because I am still "in the mix" of busy airspace and get lots of "real
world" traffic and communications chalenges, but if I don't want to do
the transition I can still get out and stay clear of Charlie and/or
Bravo and only have to chat with HWD tower. I still fly into OAK some
times for pattern work.

IMHO pilots should take the time to use the airspace avalable to its
fullest, particularly with all of the communications issues that seem
to be out there. If someone finds that they avoid airspace because
they get frustrated with ATC or are scared of the "jungle" thats where
they should spend some time to get over it and hone the skills of
proper communication.

I have found that the more proffesional and confident you sound the
faster you will get in and out of the airspace. A CFI once told me
that controllers are aware that they don't always make sence. The only
feedback they get about a particular phrasiology being ineffective is
clarifacation requests. If we dont ask they assume it made sence.
Oddly enough the NTSB sides with ATC on that.
After all, we are PIC, Right?

Another thing I have noticed, particularly with Bravo and Charlie,
accuracy in position reporting and quick "traffic in sight" replies or
unsolicited "traffic in sight" updates get you priority handling as
well. If they think you know where you are and whose around you, they
dont need as much "clear air" to keep anything from bending.

Jon Wanzer
CP ASEL / IA
AGI IGI (CFI / CFII soon-to-be)
San Jose,CA

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:21:59 -0800, john szpara
wrote:

Hayward (weird) *is* a strange place to fly into. The ILS for 29 is 1
mile to the left, and the ILS for 27 is 2.5 miles to the right.
Oakland is basically two airports. It has class C airspace, which
starts barely a 1/2 mile off the end of HWD's runways.

SFO's class B airspace lays above. SJC's class C starts 10 miles
south. Flying anywhere in this area is like an obstacle course.

As for the "modified straight in", I didn't give any thought to it at
the time. I was given no other instructions, point to fly to, or
traffic to follow, so I flew a route at my discretion.
John Szpara

Newbie almost student pilot here (IE still saving for lessons and playing
with MS Flight Sim):

bit off topic, can you recommend reading material that describes ATC
communications. What's I've heard so far sounds totally Greek to me. I can
make sure since out of a square dance call.

"Jon Wanzer" wrote in message
...
I started flying at RHV and everyone avoided SJC Carlie like the
plague. Then out of Oakland (North Field). And now HWD. I like HWD
because I am still "in the mix" of busy airspace and get lots of "real
world" traffic and communications chalenges, but if I don't want to do
the transition I can still get out and stay clear of Charlie and/or
Bravo and only have to chat with HWD tower. I still fly into OAK some
times for pattern work.

IMHO pilots should take the time to use the airspace avalable to its
fullest, particularly with all of the communications issues that seem
to be out there. If someone finds that they avoid airspace because
they get frustrated with ATC or are scared of the "jungle" thats where
they should spend some time to get over it and hone the skills of
proper communication.

I have found that the more proffesional and confident you sound the
faster you will get in and out of the airspace. A CFI once told me
that controllers are aware that they don't always make sence. The only
feedback they get about a particular phrasiology being ineffective is
clarifacation requests. If we dont ask they assume it made sence.
Oddly enough the NTSB sides with ATC on that.
After all, we are PIC, Right?

Another thing I have noticed, particularly with Bravo and Charlie,
accuracy in position reporting and quick "traffic in sight" replies or
unsolicited "traffic in sight" updates get you priority handling as
well. If they think you know where you are and whose around you, they
dont need as much "clear air" to keep anything from bending.

Jon Wanzer
CP ASEL / IA
AGI IGI (CFI / CFII soon-to-be)
San Jose,CA

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:21:59 -0800, john szpara
wrote:

Hayward (weird) *is* a strange place to fly into. The ILS for 29 is 1
mile to the left, and the ILS for 27 is 2.5 miles to the right.
Oakland is basically two airports. It has class C airspace, which
starts barely a 1/2 mile off the end of HWD's runways.

SFO's class B airspace lays above. SJC's class C starts 10 miles
south. Flying anywhere in this area is like an obstacle course.

As for the "modified straight in", I didn't give any thought to it at
the time. I was given no other instructions, point to fly to, or
traffic to follow, so I flew a route at my discretion.
John Szpara

I can make sure since out of a square dance call.

Talk about "speaking in tongues" -- what the heck does *that* mean?

You're gonna fit right in the mix with ATC, talking like that!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Hmmm, fingers not typing what I'm thinking, "I can make more since out of a
square dance call"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:0vYzd.644956$D%.308656@attbi_s51...
I can make sure since out of a square dance call.

Talk about "speaking in tongues" -- what the heck does *that* mean?

You're gonna fit right in the mix with ATC, talking like that!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Hmmm, fingers not typing what I'm thinking, "I can make more since out of a
square dance call"

Still doesn't parse in English, but it gives me enough of a clue. I
think you meant "I can make more =sense= out of a square dance call".

November Three Juliet Bravo, fly heading 120, do-si-do the outer
marker until intercepting the localizer. Maintain 3000, lady's chain
then promenade. Report airport in sight.

It's that apple cider, I'm sure.

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Nimoy Pugh wrote:

Hmmm, fingers not typing what I'm thinking, "I can make more since out of a
square dance call"

What you just typed doesn't make sense.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.