Class D Sucks

What I don't understand, is why don't people just ask for a clarification
when one is needed? It just doesn't seem like the airspace would be very
safe if everyone ran around doing what they THOUGHT someone instructed
them
to do.

Precisely.

And what makes Class D so dangerous is that

a) Everyone THINKS they know what they're doing, when, in fact, many are
interpreting things differently
b) The controller THINKS he knows where everyone is.
c) The controller is often so busy that asking for clarification is
extremely difficult

The day I wrote about, getting a word in edgewise would have been
darned-near impossible for Mary...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Ecfyd.513$k25.152@attbi_s53...

Precisely.

And what makes Class D so dangerous is that



b) The controller THINKS he knows where everyone is.


The controller get his information from the pilots. Pilots are frequently
not where they THINK they are and provide bad information to the controller.

The Bob Collins (of WGN Radio) crash north of Chicago comes immediately to
mind...

IIRC, that was almost totally the result of bad position reporting.



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Ecfyd.513$k25.152@attbi_s53...

Precisely.

And what makes Class D so dangerous is that



b) The controller THINKS he knows where everyone is.


The controller get his information from the pilots. Pilots are frequently
not where they THINK they are and provide bad information to the
controller.

"Steven P. McNicoll" roncachamp@ wrote
The controller get his information from the pilots. Pilots are frequently
not where they THINK they are and provide bad information to the
controller.

I do have to agree with you on this one Steve. I'd be rich if I'd had a
dollar for every time I've seen or heard a pilot exclaim they are at some
location, when in fact said location is any where from 1 to 5 miles in front
of them.

If you're not "directly over it" then you're not there yet!

PJ

============================================
Here's to the duck who swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together.
JJW
============================================

"PJ Hunt" wrote in message
...

I do have to agree with you on this one Steve. I'd be rich if I'd had a
dollar for every time I've seen or heard a pilot exclaim they are at some
location, when in fact said location is any where from 1 to 5 miles in
front
of them.

If you're not "directly over it" then you're not there yet!


I see this frequently, and it's often much more than five miles off.
Somebody will report five miles out just as they're crossing the ten mile
range mark, and it's not just the low end guys either.

I've often wondered why some pilots report their position at all when
contacting the tower. It's in Class C airspace, they were radar identified
at some point and never told radar contact lost or terminated. I know
exactly where they are when they call.

b) The controller THINKS he knows where everyone is.

The controller get his information from the pilots. Pilots are frequently
not where they THINK they are and provide bad information to the
controller.

Sorry, Steven -- I didn't mean to imply anything else.

That's exactly what I meant.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...


The controller get his information from the pilots. Pilots are frequently
not where they THINK they are and provide bad information to the
controller.


Guilty as charged.
Long ago I was inbound to Dallas Redbird from the Surry VOR. I mixed my
position report with direction of flight. The controller was quick to see my
mistake and asked my position again, prompting me to realize it.
My original report would have placed me in the heart of DFWs hornets nest.
:-0

Marty

Congestion on the approach frequency is at the heart of the problem.
Often it is impossible to ask for a clarification - and sometimes near
impossible to get approach's attention at all. One time I wanted to
transition a Class C, and had to listen to a long-winded conversation
between the controller and a pilot. Since they wouldn't shut up long
enough for me to "get a word in edgewise", I had to deliberately
transmit on top of the other pilot to get the controller's attention.

The best solution, if you can, is to avoid those places altogether.
Most destinations have uncontrolled airports nearby, and I, for one,
will always choose to use them - unless there is some pressing
reason to use the towered airport. I used to be based at a Class C,
but chose to move to an uncontrolled airport twice as far from where
I lived - because I got sick and tired of the hassle.

David Johnson