taking off for the first time

I'm wondering about how piloting
is taught. Getting to the point, why not use a long runway and have the
student take off just enough for the wheels to leave the ground and
then immediately touch down?

This excercise would not teach what you think it would. Much of the
"trick" to landing is the approach, and in order to teach how to
approach the runway, you need to be far enough away from it, and
pointing in an appropriate direction. One then flies a pattern
(generally one flies parallel to the runway, and then makes a squarish
u-turn while descending and adjusting speed, flaps, and other
controls. If you do this right, the next "trick" is learning when to
flare and by how much. This requires learning the "sight picture" of
what the runway looks like when close on approach. This is different
from what it would look like just after takeoff.

One thing sometimes done in training is to approach and then fly a few
feet above the runway. This helps new pilots learn not to overcontrol.

btw, there's no such thing as a "trainer runway". Student pilots use
regular runways, and mix with regular air traffic. They just have an
instructor aboard until they can handle that much on their own.

Jose
(r.a.student retained, though I don't follow that group; I'm on
r.a.piloting)
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

btw, there's no such thing as a "trainer runway".

Right. I was thinking small aircraft, and was trying to concisely
distinguish between a short runway and a long runway. In other words, a
student small aircraft pilot isn't going to have the length of a 747
runway.

Student pilots to use regular runways, and mix with regular air
traffic. They just have an instructor aboard until they can handle
that much on their own.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Jose wrote:

btw, there's no such thing as a "trainer runway".

Right. I was thinking small aircraft, and was trying to concisely
distinguish between a short runway and a long runway. In other words, a
student small aircraft pilot isn't going to have the length of a 747
runway.

Sometimes they do, but that's definately learning to swim in the deep end of
the pool.

Most runways are five to ten times the length necessary for a trainer to
take off anyway, but the instructor will still have them fly around the
pattern to set up for normal approach.

-c

John Doe wrote:
Jose wrote:

btw, there's no such thing as a "trainer runway".

Right. I was thinking small aircraft, and was trying to concisely
distinguish between a short runway and a long runway. In other words,
a student small aircraft pilot isn't going to have the length of a 747
runway.

Why not?
Just consider Paine Field, which has heavy flight school traffic but also
from where every single 747 and 757 made their maiden flight. That big
9000x150 runway was built for the heavy metal but of course it is also used
for flight training.
Or Moses Lake, which used to be an airforce base, with a giant 13500x200
runway and very little commercial traffic (although it's an important
alternate airport for the Seatlle/Portland area).

Of course those airports have smaller runways, too, but if you ask for the
big one you usually will get it.

jue

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 08:44:33 GMT, "Jürgen Exner"
wrote:

That big
9000x150 runway was built for the heavy metal but of course it is also used
for flight training.

The former Pease AFB near Portsmouth NH is now a commercial airport;
its runway is 11,321 feet. Alas for making Penguin runs on it,
however, often enough the ATC guy requires taildraggers to make touch
& go's rather than stop & go's. He likes to keep his runway clear.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

This was used for primary instruction in France during WWI.
Clipped-wing planes were used for short hops, and cadets graduated to
full sized planes--Bleriots, I think.

David

Jose wrote:
I'm wondering about how piloting is taught. Getting to the point, why
not use a long runway and have the student take off just enough for
the wheels to leave the ground and then immediately touch down?


This excercise would not teach what you think it would. Much of the
"trick" to landing is the approach, and in order to teach how to
approach the runway, you need to be far enough away from it, and
pointing in an appropriate direction. One then flies a pattern
(generally one flies parallel to the runway, and then makes a squarish
u-turn while descending and adjusting speed, flaps, and other controls.
If you do this right, the next "trick" is learning when to flare and by
how much. This requires learning the "sight picture" of what the runway
looks like when close on approach. This is different from what it would
look like just after takeoff.

One thing sometimes done in training is to approach and then fly a few
feet above the runway. This helps new pilots learn not to overcontrol.

btw, there's no such thing as a "trainer runway". Student pilots use
regular runways, and mix with regular air traffic. They just have an
instructor aboard until they can handle that much on their own.

Jose
(r.a.student retained, though I don't follow that group; I'm on
r.a.piloting)

David Kazdan wrote:

This was used for primary instruction in France during WWI.
Clipped-wing planes were used for short hops, and cadets graduated to
full sized planes--Bleriots, I think.

Nordhof and Hall (who both flew for France) stated that the school in which they
learned used Bleriots for the Penguin and Rolleur classes and "Baby" Neuports
for the full flight classes.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"John Doe" wrote
I'm wondering about how piloting is taught. Getting to the point, why not
use a long runway and have the student take off just enough for the
wheels to leave the ground and then immediately touch down?

This guy is either a kid or a troll, retarded or all of the above. He is in
a few other groups (rec.models.rc.helicopter and air). He is asking stupid
questions like " aren't fast spinning propellers blades dangerous"

"plonk"

Richard

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

This excercise would not teach what you think it would. Much of the
"trick" to landing is the approach, and in order to teach how to approach
the runway, you need to be far enough away from it, and pointing in an
appropriate direction. One then flies a pattern (generally one flies
parallel to the runway, and then makes a squarish u-turn while descending
and adjusting speed, flaps, and other controls. If you do this right, the
next "trick" is learning when to flare and by how much. This requires
learning the "sight picture" of what the runway looks like when close on
approach. This is different from what it would look like just after
takeoff.

One thing sometimes done in training is to approach and then fly a few
feet above the runway. This helps new pilots learn not to overcontrol.

btw, there's no such thing as a "trainer runway". Student pilots use
regular runways, and mix with regular air traffic. They just have an
instructor aboard until they can handle that much on their own.

Jose
(r.a.student retained, though I don't follow that group; I'm on
r.a.piloting)
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Freedom_In_Flying" wrote in message
...
"John Doe" wrote
I'm wondering about how piloting is taught. Getting to the point, why
not
use a long runway and have the student take off just enough for the
wheels to leave the ground and then immediately touch down?

This guy is either a kid or a troll, retarded or all of the above. He is
in
a few other groups (rec.models.rc.helicopter and air). He is asking stupid
questions like " aren't fast spinning propellers blades dangerous"

"plonk"

Or maybe he's a college student.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Freedom_In_Flying" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote

I'm wondering about how piloting is taught. Getting to the
point, why not use a long runway and have the student take off
just enough for the wheels to leave the ground and then
immediately touch down?

This guy is either a kid or a troll, retarded or all of the above.
He is in a few other groups (rec.models.rc.helicopter and air). He
is asking stupid questions like " aren't fast spinning propellers
blades dangerous"

That's a lie.

I didn't start that thread and I didn't say anything about
propellers being dangerous.

"plonk"

Grandstanding troll.





Richard

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Subject: taking off for the first time
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"Jose" wrote in message
om...

....