taking off for the first time

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Matt Barrow" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

Can you fly and post to Usenet at the same time?

That's coming pretty soon, though many people can now from airliners.

I understand that limited Internet service is available via mobile
phones, but can you reference any post ever to Usenet while flying?

Not that someone has bragged of doing it, but using Google Newsgroups it's
certainly possible.

What's this obsession with posting from an aircraft? If that's your
mentality level, please stick with radio-controlleds.

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Troll.

"Matt Barrow" wrote:

Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. com!newscon03.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newsswing.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.c om!tiscali!newsfeed2.ip.tiscali.net!irazu.switch.c h!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.t ele.dk!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!lenny.tc.umn.edu!feed. news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
Reply-To: "Matt Barrow"
From: "Matt Barrow"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
References:
Subject: Has anyone posted from an airplane? (Was taking off for the first time)
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"John Doe" wrote in message
. ..
"Matt Barrow" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

Can you fly and post to Usenet at the same time?

That's coming pretty soon, though many people can now from airliners.

I understand that limited Internet service is available via mobile
phones, but can you reference any post ever to Usenet while flying?

Not that someone has bragged of doing it, but using Google Newsgroups it's
certainly possible.

What's this obsession with posting from an aircraft? If that's your
mentality level, please stick with radio-controlleds.

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

John,

The technique you suggest was widely used prior to and during much of
World War I when the intention was to get persons to solo as quickly as
possible (and get them into combat as soon as possible; many of whom
flew in combat with under 20 hours of total time. They also tended to
be killed on their first or second mission, life expectancy was under
30 days for most WWI pilots in the middle portion of the war). Often
airplanes with clipped wings or very small engines were used, referred
to as penguins, because they would barely get into the air, and could
not climb out of ground effect.

The technique was dropped as it was learned that landing is only one
portion of the process of learning to fly.

All the best,
Rick


John Doe wrote:
I have never piloted an aircraft. I do flight simulation from time to

time. Currently I am messing with radio controlled aircraft. There
are
simulators for that also.

Having only simulation experience, but I'm wondering about how
piloting
is taught. Getting to the point, why not use a long runway and have
the
student take off just enough for the wheels to leave the ground and
then immediately touch down?

Again, inexperienced with the real thing, but isn't landing so
difficult/critical to warrant special treatment like that?

Trainer runways are not long enough?
The wear and tear would be too much?
That maneuver would be too difficult for a beginner to coordinate?

Genuinely curious. Thank you.

This was used for primary instruction in France during WWI.
Clipped-wing planes were used for short hops, and cadets graduated to
full sized planes--Bleriots, I think.

David

Jose wrote:
I'm wondering about how piloting is taught. Getting to the point, why
not use a long runway and have the student take off just enough for
the wheels to leave the ground and then immediately touch down?


This excercise would not teach what you think it would. Much of the
"trick" to landing is the approach, and in order to teach how to
approach the runway, you need to be far enough away from it, and
pointing in an appropriate direction. One then flies a pattern
(generally one flies parallel to the runway, and then makes a squarish
u-turn while descending and adjusting speed, flaps, and other controls.
If you do this right, the next "trick" is learning when to flare and by
how much. This requires learning the "sight picture" of what the runway
looks like when close on approach. This is different from what it would
look like just after takeoff.

One thing sometimes done in training is to approach and then fly a few
feet above the runway. This helps new pilots learn not to overcontrol.

btw, there's no such thing as a "trainer runway". Student pilots use
regular runways, and mix with regular air traffic. They just have an
instructor aboard until they can handle that much on their own.

Jose
(r.a.student retained, though I don't follow that group; I'm on
r.a.piloting)

The technique you suggest was widely used prior to and during much of
World War I when the intention was to get persons to solo as quickly as
possible (and get them into combat as soon as possible; many of whom
flew in combat with under 20 hours of total time. They also tended to
be killed on their first or second mission, life expectancy was under
30 days for most WWI pilots in the middle portion of the war). Often
airplanes with clipped wings or very small engines were used, referred
to as penguins, because they would barely get into the air, and could
not climb out of ground effect.

Honestly, Rick, I learn more about aviation history from your posts than
from all others, combined. Thanks for posting.

Nice article on the Bo conversion in AOPA Pilot this month, by the way.
That thing sounds like a 200 knot version of my plane!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Well.. you T/O with full power. If you want to then do an immediate
landing, you will have one hell-ov-a
power-back-flaps-down-establish-glide-flair-land TRANSITION in a very
compressed amount of time. Doesn't sound like a good learning technique to
me.

-Frank

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I have never piloted an aircraft. I do flight simulation from time to
time. Currently I am messing with radio controlled aircraft. There are
simulators for that also.

Having only simulation experience, but I'm wondering about how piloting
is taught. Getting to the point, why not use a long runway and have the
student take off just enough for the wheels to leave the ground and
then immediately touch down?

Again, inexperienced with the real thing, but isn't landing so
difficult/critical to warrant special treatment like that?

Trainer runways are not long enough?
The wear and tear would be too much?
That maneuver would be too difficult for a beginner to coordinate?

Genuinely curious. Thank you.

You missed trim adjustments & maybe some others too. I've decided not
to do touch and goes on short runways any more in my 172 of 27 years.
It just gets too darn busy & creates a chance to screw up.

David Kazdan wrote:

This was used for primary instruction in France during WWI.
Clipped-wing planes were used for short hops, and cadets graduated to
full sized planes--Bleriots, I think.

Nordhof and Hall (who both flew for France) stated that the school in which they
learned used Bleriots for the Penguin and Rolleur classes and "Baby" Neuports
for the full flight classes.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

John Doe wrote:

Can you fly and post to Usenet at the same time?

Sure, but the extension cord's pretty expensive.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

wrote:

Often
airplanes with clipped wings or very small engines were used, referred
to as penguins, because they would barely get into the air, and could
not climb out of ground effect.

Actually, Rick, as far as the French schools were concerned, the Penguins could
not fly at all. From what I've read, this is also true of the American Penguin
aircraft I saw pictured in Sport Pilot a year or so back. The second stage of
French flight schools was the "roller" class, which used planes such as you
describe. According to Nordhoff & Hall, the rollers "could fly, but you weren't
supposed to let them."

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.