Fatal Injury: hit by the prop

"Mike W." wrote:

The moral here is, if anyone
is going to be near the front of the plane, shut it down.

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop, even if
I think they don't intend to do so. It's one thing I think I may be overly
cautious about (I always shout "clear", too, even if I'm sure there's no-one
around).

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop,
even if
I think they don't intend to do so. It's one thing I think I may be overly
cautious about (I always shout "clear", too, even if I'm sure there's
no-one
around).

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
enterprise.

It's really hard to overkill safety. After flying a while, you may think to
yourself 'it's really silly to shut down the engine everytime someone gets
in or out of the plane, I'm careful'. But you never know when that one
little step you take will make a difference and avoid a tragedy.

In Canada it's illegal to leave an airplane running with
nobody at the controls, though we see cropsprayers doing it. The only
exception is for handpropping, and that requires that the airplane be
secured against any possible movement.
Besides that, we regularly hear of folks walking into props,
even with someone at the controls. A fella and his wife were taxiing
out in their Cardinal when she decided she had to pee (sound familiar?)
and so he returned to the ramp and kept the engine running while she
got out and promptly walked thru the prop. End of wife. Is the starting
procedure really THAT much hassle that we can't pull the mixture and
restart a few minutes later??!

Dan

My personal rule is that I would never leave the engine running and not be
at the controls. Now, if I am flying with another pilot, either of us can
get out with the engine running and if PIC is getting out, we have a routine
for passing control of the aircraft that we have briefed. I have pilot
friends that will run up to hand me something or say something and I have no
problem with that, although I am still watching what they are doing and
anticipating a brain fart. If I don't know the person approaching my
aircraft, or know the person but they aren't a pilot,...engine is off. Just
my own personal comfort zone there.

Also, if I'm shutting it down in a hurry, it's with the mag switches not the
mixture.

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote in ::

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop, even if
I think they don't intend to do so.

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.

Larry Dighera wrote:

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light?

As I recall, mine had me shut down while she got out.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote in ::

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop,
even if
I think they don't intend to do so.

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.



Mine made me shut down.

Jay B

Jay Beckman wrote:
Mine made me shut down.

Excellent! Too often when I'm at an airport with my scanner (RHV or SQL
usually) I see a CFI hop out for a student's first solo while the prop is
turning. It makes me want to jump up, run over to the plane, and strangle
the CFI - and I'm really really not a violent person. It is so
irresponsible IMHO. I wonder how many of these prop strike pilots had a CFI
that hopped out while the engine was running. You cannot do things with a
student, and then tell them not to do it - you need to fly and behave like
you want the student to fly and behave (behave == decision making). One day
he'll be flying with his wife, fire up the engine, try taxi, realize he's
left the chocks on. What does he do?

When I solo a student, we taxi to a not busy spot, shutdown, chat about what
we had just done, what he/she should do, how it'll feel different without me
there, sign the papers, emphasize that go-arounds are good, and to go have
fun and fly the numbers. Then I hop out, and the student starts running the
checklist(s) from the engine start. Yes, it costs them an extra $5, but
let's put things into perspective here. [OK, now that I have that pet peeve
off my chest... ]

Hilton

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 at 18:32:26 in message
. net, Hilton
wrote:
When I solo a student, we taxi to a not busy spot, shutdown, chat about what
we had just done, what he/she should do, how it'll feel different without me
there, sign the papers, emphasize that go-arounds are good, and to go have
fun and fly the numbers. Then I hop out, and the student starts running the
checklist(s) from the engine start. Yes, it costs them an extra $5, but
let's put things into perspective here. [OK, now that I have that pet peeve
off my chest... ]

When I had lessons many years ago, it always amazed me (it also made me
very careful) that my instructor, from day 1, put his life in my hands
by putting me at the controls while he hand propped the engine. He gave
clear instructions but I set the throttle while he turned the engine
over, then I set things for a start and switched on at the call. If the
engine had a miss-start I did as I was told again!

When I soloed he got out of the aircraft on the other side of the field
with me already lined up for take off (a grass field) with the engine
running, and walked back while I flew my circuit.

Your method was better, but I finished up extremely wary of turning
props.

Oh, I should have mentioned that the engine had no starter anyway.
--
David CL Francis

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:06:54 GMT, David CL Francis
wrote:

When I had lessons many years ago, it always amazed me (it also made me
very careful) that my instructor, from day 1, put his life in my hands
by putting me at the controls while he hand propped the engine

This is still routine, and it still amazes me.

Personally, if someone asks me for a prop, I do the job from behind,
just as I do when I'm starting the plane away from my home field.

That way, I might get run over, but that's survivable.

We did have one instructor for a year or two who didn't untie the tail
until she had the engine running. Again, the worst that could have
happened is that the student taxied off without her.

Worse yet, everyone seems to use different language for the calls,
which are made by the propper. I like BRAKES--CRACKED--HOT, because
it's what my first instructor said, and it does sound urgent. The old
timers say BRAKES--CRACKED--CONTACT. And I also hear BRAKES ON AND ON.

Whenever my granddaughter sees someone trying to start a lawnmower or
such, she cries BRAKES--CRACKED--HOT!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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