Pop out floats on a 206BIII

(Rhodesst) wrote in
:

How stable is the helicopter while it's sitting in the water on these
floats? Obviously, rough seas will pretty much doom the aircraft but
will it be reasonably stable on calm water?

On calm water, they'll usually keep it up. The problem is that the CG is
very high, & the helicopter will roll upside down very easily, especially
if the wind & seas get up. Trying to tow the the helicopter will almost
always result in it turning turtle & tearing itself apart.

The floats do slow it down, especially the modern 6-pack floats. The older
pan floats didn't slow it down very much, but in a BIII 100 kts is about
all you can expect with floats, especially with a load. Light, you might
get 110, but then again you might not. I used to plan on 100 & that was
usually pretty accurate.

--
Regards,

Stan

Yes, the cruise on our machine is about 100 knots.
I have some pictures of a 206 ditched in San Francisco and the floats held
it upright. let me know if you'd like to see them.

mike

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
(Rhodesst) wrote in
:

How stable is the helicopter while it's sitting in the water on these
floats? Obviously, rough seas will pretty much doom the aircraft but
will it be reasonably stable on calm water?

On calm water, they'll usually keep it up. The problem is that the CG is
very high, & the helicopter will roll upside down very easily, especially
if the wind & seas get up. Trying to tow the the helicopter will almost
always result in it turning turtle & tearing itself apart.

The floats do slow it down, especially the modern 6-pack floats. The
older
pan floats didn't slow it down very much, but in a BIII 100 kts is about
all you can expect with floats, especially with a load. Light, you might
get 110, but then again you might not. I used to plan on 100 & that was
usually pretty accurate.

--
Regards,

Stan

Yes, the cruise on our machine is about 100 knots.
I have some pictures of a 206 ditched in San Francisco and the floats held
it upright. let me know if you'd like to see them.

mike

Hi Mike,

I'd be interested in see the pictures if you don't mind sending them.

Thanks!
Steve R.

In article , Rhodesst
wrote:

Yes, the cruise on our machine is about 100 knots.
I have some pictures of a 206 ditched in San Francisco and the floats held
it upright. let me know if you'd like to see them.

mike

Hi Mike,

I'd be interested in see the pictures if you don't mind sending them.

Thanks!
Steve R.

This might be the one Mike was referring to... In January 2003, a
heilcopter on a tour in San Francisco was forced to ditch into the bay.
Jeremiah Cohick, who was one of the passengers in the helicopter, is
one of the people that was featured in Apple Computer's Switch
campaign. The first link has a few wide-angle pictures of the
helicopter sitting in the bay, and the second is Jeremiah's account of
what happened. There used to be some much better pictures on the web,
but I can't find them right now.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/01/14.7.shtml
http://www.jeremiahlee.com/life/2003-Jan.html
Scroll down to 1/10/2003

Steve

This might be the one Mike was referring to... In January 2003, a
heilcopter on a tour in San Francisco was forced to ditch into the bay.
Jeremiah Cohick, who was one of the passengers in the helicopter, is
one of the people that was featured in Apple Computer's Switch
campaign. The first link has a few wide-angle pictures of the
helicopter sitting in the bay, and the second is Jeremiah's account of
what happened. There used to be some much better pictures on the web,
but I can't find them right now.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/01/14.7.shtml


Steve

Mike was kind enought we send me a couple of jpegs from the story in the link
above. Thanks, Mike!

The helicopter sits much lower in the water, relative to the floats, than I
would have thought. While the water conditions aren't that rough compared to
what San Fransisco Bay is capable of, there is some wave action and the Jet
Ranger looks like it's sitting there just fine.

I noted the reporter writing the article refered to the incident as a "crash."
All I can say is, if that's a crash, then any landing a helicopter makes also
qualifies as a crash. Looks to me like the pilot did a first class job
handling the emergency.

The "vast" majority of emergency autorotations (I'm assuming that's what this
was?) that I've seen on the news over the past 20 years ended in a roll over,
seperation of the tail boom, or some other significant damage to the aircraft
whether there were any injuries or not. This Jet Ranger looks to be completely
intact. Cudo's to the pilot!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

(Rhodesst) wrote in
:

The helicopter sits much lower in the water, relative to the floats,
than I would have thought. While the water conditions aren't that
rough compared to what San Fransisco Bay is capable of, there is some
wave action and the Jet Ranger looks like it's sitting there just
fine.

The floats are on top of the skids, & inflate up to the doors, so it sits
lower than it does on the ground. This is essential, since the CG is still
pretty high, & the helicopter is rather unstable in the water. It rolls
fairly easily.

The "vast" majority of emergency autorotations (I'm assuming that's
what this was?) that I've seen on the news over the past 20 years
ended in a roll over, seperation of the tail boom, or some other
significant damage to the aircraft whether there were any injuries or
not. This Jet Ranger looks to be completely intact. Cudo's to the
pilot!

Soft autos to the water are easier than to the ground. Properly done,
during an auto to the water it's difficult to feel when you touch down.
There may be a big splash, but you don't feel the impact that much, because
the floats absorb the impact more slowly, and the water parts as you go in.
I've done innumerable practice autos to the water on fixed floats, & it's a
lot of fun, much easier to do than on skids on concrete. If the seas are
up, though, you'd better get out, because the thing will turn turtle in a
heartbeat. We've had lots of cases of engine failure in which the pilot
put the helicopter in the water with no damage at all, but the helicopter
was almost destroyed during the salvage attempt.

--
Regards,

Stan

Interesting thread.

I've got a few helicopter pics showing the machines on these pop out
floats and wondered a few times what would happend if they were needed.

My curious question is how come operators don't use the old permanent
floats. You know, the ones that looked like cigar tubes, nice and
plump, etc.

I presume it would have to do with performance, speed, etc.

Would those types of floats be safer compared to the pop outs or
would still be iffy on roughish water.

This might be the one Mike was referring to... In January 2003, a
heilcopter on a tour in San Francisco was forced to ditch into the bay.

I just returned from a trip to California and spent 3 days in SF. Who flies
the LongRanger and 407 that does the tours of the Bay area? I see they have a
pad in Sausolito off 101. Back in 84 when I was last there they had a pad on
Fishermans Wharf that was used for the tours but if I recall the "powers-to-be"
tossed them out of there.
BTW, these guys fly in some very dramatic changing weather. One afternoon I
saw the 407 flying UNDER the Golden Gate Bridge into the Bay because the
ceiling had obscured the top of the bridge.
It could be sunny in SF and foggy/low clouds to the north or east. That has to
keep a pilot on his toes for sure.

Gerard

Gerard/micbloo said

I just returned from a trip to California and spent 3 days in SF. Who flies
the LongRanger and 407 that does the tours of the Bay area? I see they have
a
pad in Sausolito off 101. Back in 84 when I was last there they had a pad on
Fishermans Wharf that was used for the tours but if I recall the
"powers-to-be"
tossed them out of there.
BTW, these guys fly in some very dramatic changing weather. One afternoon I
saw the 407 flying UNDER the Golden Gate Bridge into the Bay because the
ceiling had obscured the top of the bridge.
It could be sunny in SF and foggy/low clouds to the north or east. That has
to
keep a pilot on his toes for sure.


That would be S.F. Helicopter Tours. Thread a while back about the
ditching/auto/landing just outside the Gate. They have the Sausolito
concession now but have limited times for operation there.

The old company that operated out of both Saus. and Fisherman's Wharf was
Commodore helicopters. Talk about a money making machine! 3 minute rides for
$20.00 (or something like that...it's been many years ago!) Cash only for the
main portion of the company's existence. The trips under the bridge would be
charged as extra tip money right into the pilots coffee cup!

As far as weather around the Bay, yes it can be extremely sunny in the East Bay
and Low IFR around the Penninsula. You get good about micro-meteorology around
here.

Glad to hear you had a good trip out here. For all the foolishness of CA. it
truly is a beautiful place.

Jim

Glad to hear you had a good trip out here. For all the foolishness of CA. it
truly is a beautiful place.

We had a wonderful time starting in Encino (LA) in the Valley where we stayed
with friends then the drive up US1 which was absolutely breathtaking AND scary
at the same time, then three nights in SF.
I was impressed witn the beauty of the state like I never was the last two
times I was there (84, 93). The views of the San Fernando Valley as we drove
from Santa Monica back to Encino through Topanga Canyon. The incredible drive
up US1 to SF. The beauty of the redwoods in Muir Valley. Just so so nice.
Oh and helicopters also. LOL. In LA they're all over especially the PDs and
FD.
In SF with the exception of the sightseeing ships I did see a dark colored
S-55(58?) come flying over the Wharf and two CG Dophins flew over low one
afternoon.
Then in Oakland while dropping the car off at the rental agency I saw three
ships at Sierra and what looked like a dark colored A109 came in to land. My
kids cued me in on that but I was driving at the time and my wife "Gently"
advised me to keep my eyes on the road and not the sky. And as our plane (Jet
Blue RULES) taxied out from the terminal I saw Oakland PDs three copters parked
adjacent to the taxiway.
Yes, it really is a beautiful state.
And thanks for the other info.

Gerard