Q: What can a Commercial Helicopter Pilot Licence holder expect to earn?

"Ken Sandyeggo" wrote in message
...
From someone who's been around the block a few times, if you pick
training and a profession based solely on what it pays, you're doomed
to miserableness. If you don't love, or at least like a lot what
you're doing, you may as well go straight to hell, do not pass "GO"
and do not collect the $200. More pay is way less desireable than
doing something you love to do. I finally got bored with my sign shop
after almost 13 years, sold it and am now almost halfway through a
course in nursing so I can work with kids, something I first thought
of about 35 years ago. The next oldest student in my class is 18
years my junior and I'm 40 years older than the youngest one. Save
working for starving wages, do what your heart tells you. Don't let
anything stop you or anyone talk you out of it. There'll be struggles
and hard times, but in the end, you'll be much richer than the guy
that slugs it out at a job he hates for 40 years in order to get a
pension......that may or may not be there when he expects it. Just
had an ex-sister-in-law that stayed devoted to ATT in Chicago for over
22 years, commuting over 90 miles per day via car and train one-way to
get there. She would have been eligible for her pension in a couple
of years and was looking forward to it. "Sorry, we're closing the
department. Here's a couple months pay and good luck in your job
hunt." (Sound of door slamming behind her). She gets diddly, because
the pension "benefit" was completely company funded, so she had no
vested interest in it at all. That sounds good when you're first
hired; a free pension. Her pension was worth exactly what she put
into it....zilch.

Ken J. - Sandy Eggo


Thanks for that, it pretty much sums up the way I feel.
However, I'm not looking into the money in order to make the decision, I'm
looking into the practicalities of a decision I've just about made.

Unfortunately the amount of money I unexpectedly came across is just barely
enough to do the course, so it won't pay for many extra hours above the
licence itself. So I'll end up spending $40K and have 105 hours clocked up.
If I can't then get some extra hours up at someone else's expense, my
current job certainly won't provide for them with a wife, kids, mortgage,
and car loan to feed. I need to be practical about it, cause the other
course of action with $40k would mean, NO car loan, HALF the mortgage, and a
wife who would then be able to quit her job and work part time - which has
been her dream for a long time. Her dream, or mine? As much as I like
doing things for ME, I love doing things for her, and so if I can't increase
my income from this dream, then I'd rather help her meet her dream.

Besides, I'm over 38, I'd be 39 by the time I finished the course, that
means trying to find work at 40, with only 105 hours clocked up. I don't see
that happening.
I would think, that 105 hours and then basically NONE, might actually hurt
far more than never having flown.

Oh well, it's given me food for thought, 45 hours less time to get the
licence, means 45 more lots of $350 in my pocket, which means more than
enough to go to the US, do the licence, come back, and also spend a nice
chunk on the Missus, but I'd need to look into the requirements once I get
back here, regarding changing the licence over.

Trentus

"Trentus" wrote:


If I can't then get some extra hours up at someone else's expense, my
current job certainly won't provide for them with a wife, kids, mortgage,
and car loan to feed. I need to be practical about it, cause the other
course of action with $40k would mean, NO car loan, HALF the mortgage, and a
wife who would then be able to quit her job and work part time - which has

Be cautious when partially paying off a mortgage. I have seen some
here that consider extra payments as payments toward interest and not
principal. I suggest that you refinance at a lower principal rather
than try to deal with the current mortgage. To be honest, although I
love helicopters, if I were in your shoes, practicality would make me
choose this option.

Oh well, it's given me food for thought, 45 hours less time to get the
licence, means 45 more lots of $350 in my pocket, which means more than
enough to go to the US, do the licence, come back, and also spend a nice
chunk on the Missus, but I'd need to look into the requirements once I get
back here, regarding changing the licence over.

The time to look into the transferability is before you come over
here. I don't know anything about AU law to help you on that.
Nevertheless, even at a 69 cent conversion, those AU $350 hours are
costing you over US $240. If you get 2 hours a day, that US $80 daily
savings would more than take care of your loging expenses. Also, some
of the heli schools have contracted lodging which brings the cost down
even more. So, like you said, with air fare and lodging, the hourly
cost would be about the same, however, its the total number of hours
required. Also, the FAA has approved certain flight simulators that
some schools have for credit toward your license. Up to 7 hours I
think. The dual sim hours are only about $100.

Just remember, a paycheck in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Dennis.


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how they are putting
Americans out of work, visit the following web site
and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news video:
http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

I thought I'd post a little more of my research into Aus vs US for
helo training. I'm not a HPPL or CPL or anything, this is just the
research I've done to reach my decision. It may well be incorrect, and
if some kind soul corrects this then thanks to them.

So a HCPL package looks cheaper in Australia vs US - i.e. it's cheaper
to get the CPL certificate in AUS, but looking beneath that there are
a couple of important facts relating to hours.

Ultimately sufficient hours are what will get you your first and
subsequent flying jobs and without sufficient hours a job will be next
to impossible regardless pof having a CPL certificate.

The most efficient way into a paid job is through flying instruction.
I guess there are some who have managed to jump into some
non-instruction work but increasingly that seems almost impossible due
to insurance problems for low hour pilots.

In the US a PPL/CPL/CFI will take 150hrs (I know another posted
mentioned 60hrs - I'm not certain what they were referring to for
60hrs, presumably the flat CPL).

At 150hrs in the US you can instruct, although realistically you'll
probably need 200hrs (certainly for R22 instructing) as a minimum.

In Aus though, you can get a CPL with just 105hrs, but you can't
instruct until you reach 400hrs. So you see, the paper is cheaper in
Aus (less hours to CPL) but the route to a job is longer (400hrs) and
therefore more expensive than the US.

So far then the US is looking good. But then the fun begins. Your US
CFI is of course no use to you in Australia with just 150hrs, so you
have to make up the difference somehow. You could just hour build in
Aus, or the US, or you could instruct in the US.

In here is possible option 1 although it's a long shot. Getting back
from the US with your FAA stuff, you do the Aus conversions. Then
you've got around 150hr Aus CPL. This ight put you in a better
position to get a job in Australia than a 105hr CPL. But I think
either is a long shot to be fair.

Staying in the US to do someinstructing (and build hours) is option 2.
US instructing doesn't command very large pay - somewhere between
US$10 and US$20 per FLYING hour. Let's say you manage 14 flying hours
a week on average, your pay would be US$140 to US$280 a week (around
US$600 to US$1000 per month). However the final probelm is that to
instruct in the US, you need a suitable Visa and in total probably 1.5
to years over there (9 months for the training and the rest of the
time to work). The training VISA is easy to get, the working part less
so but doable.

Having gone the US route, you'll need to convert your licenses to the
Aus equivalents before working/instructing - that'll be at least some
written exams and probably a flight test too - not that much money in
the scheme of things but by then you'll have pretty much blown
whatever initial investment you had.

Now for a single guy or even a childless couple with a small capital
sum the whole thing is feasible...for someone with children, later in
life with a pretty settled view of the world, crossing into Helo
flying is going to take not just a big commitment of cash, but also
personal time and significant upheaval. It's this latter part that
will be the clincher - for example, are you ready for your family to
be out in the US for 2 years with a low income etc.

Things like the house and car will probably have to be sold too - you
might get by without the money from them, but the US won't give you a
VISA unless you can prove you can pay the course fees AND live (the
whole family btw) without any kind of income for the whole period
you're out there.

The final point I can make is that even after you get to say the 500
to 1000hr mark - it's still tricky. Most of my research suggests that
those early years (perhaps 5 or so if things go well) are going to be
pretty nomadic if you're going to get anywhere. I saw someone describe
helo work as living where the dirt trail ends because that's where
helo's are most useful. Not all that conducive to family life
(assuming the family even agree to come with you!).

So there you go, my studying of the subject all shows it to be tricky,
not for the faint hearted and if things go well you're looking at 5
years of relative hardship if you're enjoying a fairly comfortable
life now.

If after weighing everything up you still go for it, then best of
luck.

r.



Thanks for that, it pretty much sums up the way I feel.
However, I'm not looking into the money in order to make the decision, I'm
looking into the practicalities of a decision I've just about made.

Unfortunately the amount of money I unexpectedly came across is just barely
enough to do the course, so it won't pay for many extra hours above the
licence itself. So I'll end up spending $40K and have 105 hours clocked up.
If I can't then get some extra hours up at someone else's expense, my
current job certainly won't provide for them with a wife, kids, mortgage,
and car loan to feed. I need to be practical about it, cause the other
course of action with $40k would mean, NO car loan, HALF the mortgage, and a
wife who would then be able to quit her job and work part time - which has
been her dream for a long time. Her dream, or mine? As much as I like
doing things for ME, I love doing things for her, and so if I can't increase
my income from this dream, then I'd rather help her meet her dream.

Besides, I'm over 38, I'd be 39 by the time I finished the course, that
means trying to find work at 40, with only 105 hours clocked up. I don't see
that happening.
I would think, that 105 hours and then basically NONE, might actually hurt
far more than never having flown.

Oh well, it's given me food for thought, 45 hours less time to get the
licence, means 45 more lots of $350 in my pocket, which means more than
enough to go to the US, do the licence, come back, and also spend a nice
chunk on the Missus, but I'd need to look into the requirements once I get
back here, regarding changing the licence over.

Trentus

(ryuzu) wrote:

In the US a PPL/CPL/CFI will take 150hrs (I know another posted
mentioned 60hrs - I'm not certain what they were referring to for
60hrs, presumably the flat CPL).

At 150hrs in the US you can instruct, although realistically you'll
probably need 200hrs (certainly for R22 instructing) as a minimum.

Hi Sherri,

I was the one who said that. You only need a min of 40 hours to get
your HPPL with the average being 60. If I said HCPL, it was a typo.

Dennis.



Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how they are putting
Americans out of work, visit the following web site
and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news video:
http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Yeah that's what I thought but the whole thing has so many options I didn't
wnat to second guess it was HPPL only...

Thanks for the update!

r.


Hi Sherri,

I was the one who said that. You only need a min of 40 hours to get
your HPPL with the average being 60. If I said HCPL, it was a typo.

Dennis.

Someone with a bare commercial licence usually has to pay to get work.
Most of the big training organizations are churning out keen people who
will work for nothing. Vitually nobody will employ a bare comm. In days
gone by mustering used to be the way to log a few hours, now most think
you have to have a degree in cows (Jackaroo or something similar). If
you do snag a job mustering, expect to work big hours in crap
conditions (or rustic rural life, don't expect to get fat). There are
heaps of operators out there who just want cheap labour.

The only resonable paid employment is aeromedical or Gov. type jobs.
These only employ folks with a few hours 3000+, and still don't get big
$, and while there are blokes coming out of the military, they don't
hire many from GA.

The other work is firetime, around 5 months work 1 year in 4, Then the
rest of the time wash cars and serve hamburgers. Fixedwing is probebly
worse, with more young people traveling the country looking for work.
There are people working for $200 a week and doing 60 hours and 7 days,
just to get time. With the domestic Airlines going backwards and GA
stagnating there won't be any hope for the next 20 years.

Sounds rather pessimistic but thats life in GA .


--
studentpilot
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -

studentpilot wrote:

Someone with a bare commercial licence usually has to pay to get work.
Most of the big training organizations are churning out keen people who
will work for nothing. Vitually nobody will employ a bare comm. In days
gone by mustering used to be the way to log a few hours, now most think
you have to have a degree in cows (Jackaroo or something similar). If
you do snag a job mustering, expect to work big hours in crap
conditions (or rustic rural life, don't expect to get fat). There are
heaps of operators out there who just want cheap labour.

The only resonable paid employment is aeromedical or Gov. type jobs.
These only employ folks with a few hours 3000+, and still don't get big
$, and while there are blokes coming out of the military, they don't
hire many from GA.

The other work is firetime, around 5 months work 1 year in 4, Then the
rest of the time wash cars and serve hamburgers. Fixedwing is probebly
worse, with more young people traveling the country looking for work.
There are people working for $200 a week and doing 60 hours and 7 days,
just to get time. With the domestic Airlines going backwards and GA
stagnating there won't be any hope for the next 20 years.

Sounds rather pessimistic but thats life in GA .


--
studentpilot
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -


I dont think of it being all that bad. I between me and my daugter we
will be spending $65,000 US over the next 4 years to send my daughter to
Collage. In those 4 years she will be making zero or minimal. With about
$50,000 US, within one year, you could be instructing in a helicopter
for about $20/billed hour or about $8/equivalent working hour. That
leaves you with 3 years of working (or should I call it continued
education) with $8/hour over the collage student. Choose your carear wisely.

John Roncallo