ASW 24 WL for beginner ?

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:52:05 -0400, Todd Pattist
wrote:

Sleigh wrote:

Sounds like excellent justification to fly low tow.

You know that suggestion is, far too sensible and practical
for this group
Low tow fan..England

I'm always fascinated by this low-tow high-tow discussion.
Do you mind if I ask what your climb rate is on tow? I tow
in my Ventus above the wake (unless on XC tow retrieve), but
the L-19 tug's wheels are well above the horizon, and I'm
significantly lower than the typical instructor when I ask
where he tows while I'm taking a flight review. I tow in my
preferred location in part for visibility over the compass
mounted on my panel shield, and in part because it just
"feels" right, but I really find it odd that anyone would
intentionally tow below the wake of an L-19 at near
sea-level during a climb to release. The rope would be over
me in a heartbeat if it broke, and there's a constant strong
tendency for the steep upwardly angled rope to pull up the
glider's nose that would quickly lead to kiting over the
towplane if there is a momentary inattention.
Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

I'm with you Todd. The rope can kill you, let alone bits falling off
the towplane and with a high powered tug and shortish rope you don't
have nearly as good a horizon reference as you are looking upwards.

Low tow fans note: You cannot fly low tow until the towplane is some
subtantial distance from the ground. So the problem becomes where do
you transition- either you fly through the towplane wake very close to
the ground or do it at 200 -300 feet in which case why bother? Both
introduce unnecessary hazards which are entirely avoided by flying
stabilised high tow(just above the wake).

Nearly all these problems go away if you use a longer rope. About 240
feet. The towplane wake has much less energy, the rocks don't ding
your glider, the "in station" window is much bigger and if you try it
you will find it is all a much more pleasant and relaxed experience.
You even have time in the glider for decent lookout and may prevent a
mid air collision, one of the main hazards for tow pilots in Australia
which leads them to die at 10 times the hourly rate of cropdusters.
Sailplanes are relatively safe compared to this. The pilots only die
at about the same rate as cropdusters per hour. If you think there is
something wrong with this you may just be getting a clue that a
problem exists.

Mike Borgelt

Mike Borgelt wrote:
Nearly all these problems go away if you use a longer rope. About 240
feet. The towplane wake has much less energy, the rocks don't ding
There are definately different standards about the tow ropes...
Thickness too.

I've flown with ropes which range from 20 meters(!) to 50 meters. Never
longer. I guess when the rope is 75 meters, flying below wake becomes an
option. When it is 20, there is no choice because your are behind. Note
that towing in Netherlands is considered a waste of money so we don't do
it very often. Bye,

David
NL

Mike Borgelt wrote
Low tow fans note: You cannot fly low tow until the towplane is some
subtantial distance from the ground.

Why not? Simply stay in ground effect and let the tow plane climb out first.

Michael

In article , crwdog69
@hotmail.com says...
Mike Borgelt wrote
Low tow fans note: You cannot fly low tow until the towplane is some
subtantial distance from the ground.

Why not? Simply stay in ground effect and let the tow plane climb out first.

In our area, we often have enough wind shear in the first 200 feet
that this technique will lead to the tow plane slowing down rapidly
(compared to the glider and the ground) in the faster moving air above
the low glider. In those conditions, it is very important for the
glider to climb off the runway level with the towplane. A few hundred
feet up, a low tow can be safely established
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:59:16 -0700, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

In article , crwdog69
says...
Mike Borgelt wrote
Low tow fans note: You cannot fly low tow until the towplane is some
subtantial distance from the ground.

Why not? Simply stay in ground effect and let the tow plane climb out first.


So where do you think you are relative to the wake when you are in
ground effect????

You are either in it(undesirable) or just above. Either way you end up
flying in the turbulent wake close to the ground. To fly in low tow
the towplane has to be high enough for you to be under the wake
without hitting the ground.

Mike Borgelt