High Speed Passes & the FAA

JJ,

The finish cylinder has its place in competition. But not to the
exclusion of the finish line. Many of us still contend that it is
better to race to a visible marker rather than to a virtual point in
space requiring refernce to instruments. Heads up rather than heads
down. As for the FARs, aircraft regularly take off and land withn 500
feet of people, structures, and other aircraft at commercial airports.
This is by necessity.

An airport manager must balance proactive safety initiatives with
perceived risk versus safety history.

And finally, trailers and tie downs are mobile. Are we there to race
or to recreate? If the latter, call it a camp and dispense with the
racing altogether. Camps are fun too, but let's not confuse them with
contests.

OC

"Chris OCallaghan" wrote...
The finish cylinder has its place in competition. But not to the
exclusion of the finish line. Many of us still contend that it is
better to race to a visible marker rather than to a virtual point in
space requiring refernce to instruments. Heads up rather than heads
down.

Flying head down is never necessary. The center of the finish cylinder is
almost always close to some visible marker on the airport. If it isn't, I ask
the CD to move it so it is. My software beeps when I cross the boundary of the
cylinder, does yours? Finally, I only glance at the computer once in a while to
see if I'm falling below glide slope, which I'd also be doing with a 50 foot
gate. But then again, I'm not anal about finishing at precisely 500 feet...

As for the FARs, aircraft regularly take off and land withn 500
feet of people, structures, and other aircraft at commercial airports.
This is by necessity.

91.119 Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes...

Flying head down is never necessary. The center of the finish cylinder is
almost always close to some visible marker on the airport. If it isn't, I ask
the CD to move it so it is. My software beeps when I cross the boundary of the
cylinder, does yours? Finally, I only glance at the computer once in a while to
see if I'm falling below glide slope, which I'd also be doing with a 50 foot
gate. But then again, I'm not anal about finishing at precisely 500 feet...

I don't agree. When you approach a cylinder, you are aiming at its
center. I haven't seen a computer program that optimizes the point on
the cycliner you should be aiming at given current position and
altitude and interpolates your desired finish height to that point.
Instead you are looking down as the distance clicks off, and checking
your altitude to make sure that you don't fall slightly short. As
noted in earlier threads this means more heads down and more
variations in traffic height and speed, all converging on a much
smaller area (the optimum point on the cylinder).

Finish lines are almost completely heads up. If you can't judge 50
feet looking out the window, you have problems... certainly becuase
your altimeter is showing a variation of 50 feet or more since you set
it at takeoff. Additionally, traffic speed is much closer to uniform.
Low, slow gliders land straight ahead rather than obstructing the
finish line. And I've yet to encounter a glider at my height circling
1 mile from a finish line.


91.119 Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes...

My high speed finish is typically the crosswind or downwind leg of my
pattern. I have, on several occasions, thermalled away from a high
speed pass (never at a contest). There you have an argument. Otherwise
I'm excercising my options as a pilot to conform to a standard
pattern... one established by contestants prior to the contest. I am
therefore within the requirements of 91.119.

Be careful when citing book and passage from the FARs. I know for a
fact that you don't follow some rules (none of us do) as scrupulously
as you are applying them in this case. I can find some gray in 91.119.
You'll be hard pressed to find any in 91.155.

Virtue: the behavior we demand of others, but excuse the lack of in
ourselves.

"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Flying head down is never necessary. The center of the finish cylinder is
almost always close to some visible marker on the airport. If it isn't, I
ask
the CD to move it so it is. My software beeps when I cross the boundary of
the
cylinder, does yours? Finally, I only glance at the computer once in a
while to
see if I'm falling below glide slope, which I'd also be doing with a 50 foot
gate. But then again, I'm not anal about finishing at precisely 500 feet...

I don't agree. When you approach a cylinder, you are aiming at its
center. I haven't seen a computer program that optimizes the point on
the cycliner you should be aiming at given current position and
altitude and interpolates your desired finish height to that point.

I'm not a mathematician, but I think you'll find that the point you should be
aiming for on the cylinder is on the line from your current position to the
center of the cylinder. Since, as far as I know, your computer is guiding you
towards the center of the cylinder from your current position, then you will
cross that optimal point.

Instead you are looking down as the distance clicks off, and checking
your altitude to make sure that you don't fall slightly short.

I'm not worried about falling slightly short, since I'm nearly always 500 feet
or more above the minimum finish altitude. Frankly, if your computer can't help
you navigate to the desired height at the edge of the cylinder, yell at the
designer, or get a new instrument or software. This isn't rocket science.

BTW, if you look carefully at SSA contest rules 10.9.3, it states quite clearly
that a finish is recorded when you enter the 3 dimensional cylinder. It does
not say you have to enter at the edge, you can also enter through the bottom.
What this means is that even if you cross the edge of the cylinder at lower than
the minimum height, as long as you can pull up and get a single fix within the
cylinder, you've got a finish.

Now, some buttheads somewhere will no doubt start coming in below the cylinder
and pulling up through the center, figuring this will give them a speed
advantage. It won't, since while you finish time is recorded where you enter
the cylinder, your finish distance only goes to the edge.

As noted in earlier threads this means more heads down and more
variations in traffic height and speed, all converging on a much
smaller area (the optimum point on the cylinder).

If everyone is coming from the same final turnpoint, then they will all converge
on pretty much the same point, whether using a finish gate or a cylinder. When
everyone is not coming from the same final turnpoint (i.e. an MAT), everyone
still converges on pretty much the same point with a finish gate, but they do
not converge with a cylinder.

Again, the advantage of a finish cylinder is that those people who have
sufficient energy (and don't feel the need to make low pass), end up overhead
the airport well over 500 feet, at a comfortable speed, with plenty of time to
assess the traffic situation, watch out for those on marginal glides, go through
their checklist, etc. This has worked very well at every contest I've flown in
that used a finish cylinder. The only recent contest where I've felt
stressed/hurried during finishes, was one where a few traditionalists browbeat
the CD into using a GPS finish gate.

Be careful when citing book and passage from the FARs. I know for a
fact that you don't follow some rules (none of us do) as scrupulously
as you are applying them in this case. I can find some gray in 91.119.
You'll be hard pressed to find any in 91.155.

The original quote from your message was:

As for the FARs, aircraft regularly take off and land withn 500
feet of people, structures, and other aircraft at commercial airports.
This is by necessity.

And my point was, yes indeed, this happens, and it's perfectly legal according
to 9.119.

Virtue: the behavior we demand of others, but excuse the lack of in
ourselves.

The only virtue that I request of others on this group is that they actually
read and consider what is said...

Marc