Safety of winch launch vrs. aero tow?

"Chris Nicholas" wrote in message
...
The film clip posted by Andreas shows another sort of accident, i.e. it
seems not to have been caused by rotating too much and hence
insufficient energy to avoid a heavy landing. Instead it is one of the
accidents relatively common in winch launching - we do not see the
glider leaving the cable, but it clearly flies at an adequate airspeed
for some distance before spinning off a turn which is too steep, too
close to the ground, in the wind gradient, and too slow for that set of
circumstances. Without knowing the site one cannot say what the pilot
should have done instead, but it is rare for there not to be a "land
ahead" option with less serious potential after a low cable break or
launch failure.

As I remarked before, it is not the winch launch itself that usually
produces the accident, it is pilot mismanagement of the subsequent
flightpath.

The too-little-energy syndrome this thread had been discussing most
recently is pilot mismanagement during the launch - not having learned
properly how to avoid having too little energy to cope with any
eventuality.

Both kinds of pilot error seem hard to eradicate in civilian gliding
clubs, which leads to considerable numbers of "winch launch" related
statistics.

My understanding is that the Air Cadets in the UK, who do huge amounts
of winch launching, have a much better safety record. It is rumoured
that they achieve this by teaching in a more regimented fashion. However
they do it, it demonstrates that winch launching CAN be safe - the
problem is the human element, not the technology itself. The only way
the human element can be made safer is by better training etc.

If a wave of winch launching were to commence in the USA, I think it
would be difficult to avoid a wave of accidents following, unless the
training and conversion of pilots were done better than we often manage
in the UK civilian gliding world. I wish every success to the
instigators of the project, and I hope they can pick up enough know-how
to climb the learning curve safely.

Chris N.


Chris makes a good point.

There does seem to be a condition experienced by some people who find it
hard to make fast mental adjustments from one set of conditions to another.
One moment they are setting on the ground and 35 seconds later then are high
in the sky at the controls of a glider and struggling to cope. The rush of
a winch launch may create a sensory overload beyond their ability to manage.

This may be analogous to a well known condition experienced by some
motorists who enter a high speed expressway and find it hard to adjust to
the fast traffic for a while. (and, of course, the reverse when leaving the
expressway and entering slow surface traffic.) I have never experienced
this and know of relatively few who do.

If we were more alert to this possibility we might intervene and ask a pilot
showing these symptoms to get a little more recurrent training. Perhaps
this is something we instructors should emphasize in training. Instructors
should be alert to sensory overload in their students and pace their lessons
accordingly but things do happen quickly in a winch launch.

Bill Daniels

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:03:18 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:


There does seem to be a condition experienced by some people who find it
hard to make fast mental adjustments from one set of conditions to another.
One moment they are setting on the ground and 35 seconds later then are high
in the sky at the controls of a glider and struggling to cope. The rush of
a winch launch may create a sensory overload beyond their ability to manage.

Hmmm... I never saw this during a winch launch yet. The work load
during a winch launch is very low compared to an aerotow - the only
thing you really need to watch is airspeed and the "bang" of a rope
break.

The situation you describe (when the pilot gets behind the plane)
happens much more often during very low maneuvering (like low
approaches) - suddenly pilot looses track of airspeed and stalls, for
example (just as the clip I posted shows).



Bye
Andreas

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:03:18 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:

There does seem to be a condition experienced by some people who find it
hard to make fast mental adjustments from one set of conditions to another.
One moment they are setting on the ground and 35 seconds later then are high
in the sky at the controls of a glider and struggling to cope. The rush of
a winch launch may create a sensory overload beyond their ability to manage.

Hmm... If their sensory is overloaded so easily, then they should
consider to quit flying immediately.

Stefan

"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:03:18 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:


There does seem to be a condition experienced by some people who find it
hard to make fast mental adjustments from one set of conditions to
another.
One moment they are setting on the ground and 35 seconds later then are
high
in the sky at the controls of a glider and struggling to cope. The rush
of
a winch launch may create a sensory overload beyond their ability to
manage.

Hmmm... I never saw this during a winch launch yet. The work load
during a winch launch is very low compared to an aerotow - the only
thing you really need to watch is airspeed and the "bang" of a rope
break.

The situation you describe (when the pilot gets behind the plane)
happens much more often during very low maneuvering (like low
approaches) - suddenly pilot looses track of airspeed and stalls, for
example (just as the clip I posted shows).



Bye
Andreas

It's probably because you and your friends are accustomed to winch launch as
a normal way to get gliders into the air. In the USA, winch launch is still
a novelty for most glider pilots. I very much agree that the workload is
far less during a winch launch as compared to airtow, but the sensations are
quite novel for the uninitiated.

I once gave a 747 captain his first glider ride on a winch. After release,
I asked him what he thought of the launch. His answer, "I have no idea what
just happened" - "I have never felt so far behind an aircraft".

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
nk.net...
I once gave a 747 captain his first glider ride on a winch. After
release,
I asked him what he thought of the launch. His answer, "I have no idea
what
just happened" - "I have never felt so far behind an aircraft".

Bill Daniels


He probably missed not having his co-pilot to do the flying for him.

Pat Barfield :-)

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:05:17 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:


It's probably because you and your friends are accustomed to winch launch as
a normal way to get gliders into the air. In the USA, winch launch is still
a novelty for most glider pilots. I very much agree that the workload is
far less during a winch launch as compared to airtow, but the sensations are
quite novel for the uninitiated.

Sure this is the case. But it's nothing that coud not be trained away
with 30 winch launches...
Bye
Andreas