Revised IGC-approvals for some types of legacy recorder

"Paul Remde" wrote in message news:rQgub.32000$Dw6.156983@attbi_s02...
I just find this absurd. I'm very angry about the sudden change.
As Ian mentioned this decision was taken by the IGC Plenum at their
meeting
in March 2003 and was mentioned in the minutes of this meeting so no
question about sudden change.

If I remember correctly, Steve Fossett is using a GPS-NAV (and a 302 I
believe) and currently setting world records in the southern hemisphere.
I think Mr. Fossett is well capable to afford a flight recorder which
is suitable for World Records.

I'm still waiting for a good answer to the question why. Why is the GPS-NAV
suddenly not secure for world records?
Your anger must have blinded you, just read the points mentioned in
Ians mailing which is in perfect English.

This is not acceptable behavior by the IGC.
What exactly do you not find acceptable? Progress? Computing power has
changed considerably since these initial specifications were
introduced. I think pilots going for world records will be happy in
the knowledge that their traces come from FR's with the highest
security available and nobody will be able to manufacture a record by
breaking the security of these older FR's.

Regards
Bruno
IGC-GNSS Committee

Paul Remde

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
om...
Paul Remde wrote:

Yes, but doesn't the CAI system work? It is my impression that it is
perfectly secure and has never been compromised. So why suddenly call
it
"insecure".

As of January 1st, the CAI Model 10/20/25 won't be considered
"insecure", they just won't be considered "secure enough" for world
records. You can still use it for badges, 1000K+ diplomas, contests,
etc., just not world records.

What is the plan to get the approval back in place? What must CAI do to
make it meet your new requirements?

Minimally, a firmware upgrade would be required, but it is not clear
that the microcontroller is fast enough to support the needed changes.
The manufacturer(s?) is the only one that can provide an answer...

Marc

(Bruno Ramseyer) writes:

What exactly do you not find acceptable? Progress? Computing power
has changed considerably since these initial specifications were
introduced. I think pilots going for world records will be happy in
the knowledge that their traces come from FR's with the highest
security available and nobody will be able to manufacture a record
by breaking the security of these older FR's.

If anyone is going to fabricate records, then just feed the whole
system from a pseudolite set. No need to get inside the systems at
all.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

Paul Repacholi wrote:
If anyone is going to fabricate records, then just feed the whole
system from a pseudolite set. No need to get inside the systems at
all.

You'd need to properly synchonize the GPS and pressure altitude changes
to pull it off. Maybe it's easy for you, but not for me 8^)

Marc

Paul Repacholi wrote:
...
If anyone is going to fabricate records, then just feed the whole
system from a pseudolite set. No need to get inside the systems at
all.
...

This is just what the cryptograhic RSA signature makes impossible,
not to fake such records, but to put them in an IGC file that the
validation program accepts as a genuine file coming from the logger.

You miss the point entirely.

There is no signature on the GPS signals, therefore any system capable of
generating GPS signals can feed them to a flight recorder via the antenna,
exactly like the real satellite system. All the flight recorder can do is
take the data, and generate a signature proving that what *it received* has
not been tampered with.

Pseudolites ( GPS generators for test purposes ) are available, at least 5
manufacturers, by my very cursory search a while ago. They are still
relatively expensive, but not much in comparison to the cost of setting up
to do a world record.

Fooling the pressure transducer and engine noise detection systems on the
average flight recorder is a relatively trivial matter, for those who want
to cheat.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen
J & K MicroSystems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
"Robert Ehrlich" wrote in message
...
Paul Repacholi wrote:
...
If anyone is going to fabricate records, then just feed the whole
system from a pseudolite set. No need to get inside the systems at
all.
...

This is just what the cryptograhic RSA signature makes impossible,
not to fake such records, but to put them in an IGC file that the
validation program accepts as a genuine file coming from the logger.