glider/airplane collision

"mm" wrote in message ...

Anyone who has an FAA aerobatic altitude waiver. I've seen many loops end
significantly lower than 600'.
mm

Well I don't have a Letter of Authority to perform low altitude
aerobatics, but I do have a LOA for another area. The letter is
excruciatingly specific about what I am and am not permitted to do. I
hope for Turf and Roy's sake that all conditions on said letter were
complied with.

Terry Claussen wrote:


Well I don't have a Letter of Authority to perform low altitude
aerobatics, but I do have a LOA for another area. The letter is
excruciatingly specific about what I am and am not permitted to do. I
hope for Turf and Roy's sake that all conditions on said letter were
complied with.
Compared to what he has lost already, what the FAA can take is
insignificant.

http://www.avweb.com/news/safety/182980-1.html

It sound familiar because it is.

A very poignant piece, but inappropriate to the subject of this
thread. I'd have preferred to read it without the implication that it
described, in part or whole, the cause of the accident at Turf. Let's
let the FAA do its job of finding causes and suggesting corrections.
Meanwhile, we should divorce these tangents from the event by pursuing
them as independent threads.

"Terry Claussen" wrote in message
om...
http://www.avweb.com/news/safety/182980-1.html

It sound familiar because it is.

You have no clue as to what a disservice this does to the folks at Turf.
They have flown thousands of aerobatic flights without an accident until
this one. It was a midair with a plane going through the middle of the
aerobatic box so has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the article
you referenced therefore is not "familiar". This accident could have
occurred at 5000 feet. Please review the facts prior to posting next time.
And for God's sake think about the families and friends involved before
putting this on a public forum.

Casey Lenox
Phoenix

"Kilo Charlie" wrote in message news:22HNb.8888$Xq2.5042@fed1read07...
Please review the facts prior to posting next time.
And for God's sake think about the families and friends involved before
putting this on a public forum.

Casey Lenox
Phoenix

Mr. Lennox,

The facts are similar and involve the risks accepted by low altitude
aerobatics. I guarantee that risk was not contemplated by the
passenger. The creation of an aerobatic box is not some type of
shield that will protect your aircraft. Only your eyes and your
actions can do that.

In my 25 years in aviation, I think daily about families and friends.
Friends I have already lost. These accidents should not be swept
under the rug, for if they are then we are all the worse for it. We
should all resolve to make today safer than yesterday.

I have spoken with the author of that piece, it is NOT about Turf, and
it was not my intention to imply that it was. The ultimate result of
these types of accidents are further restrictions on aviation to the
detriment of us all. I hope you will be able to see that, someday.

Respectfully,
Terry Claussen

The creation of an aerobatic box is not some type of
shield that will protect your aircraft. Only your eyes and your
actions can do that.

Dear Airmen/Airwomen:

There are no guarantees even when we have procedures in effect (aerobatic box).
That is the lesson to be learned. My heart goes out to the family and friends
of these Airmen, what a tragedy.

I came within 5 feet of an American Airlines MD 80 out of Burbank airport, and
we were both talking to the same controller (at slightly different times so I
did not hear the airline clearance). The controller said "sorry guys my
fault," but that would be of little of little condolence to the 92 souls if we
had hit. Ultimately we can only depend on ourselves. What if you are on a
victor hwy at FL20 and someone busts the Class A airspace in front of you? it
is dangerous business even if we just do it for fun and we must always be
aware.

Craig

Unfortunately we all fly invisible aircrafts.
Maybe one day all aircrafts will be required to use technology which exists
for many years and can eliminate midairs.

Ramy

"Shaber CJ" wrote in message
...
The creation of an aerobatic box is not some type of
shield that will protect your aircraft. Only your eyes and your
actions can do that.

Dear Airmen/Airwomen:

There are no guarantees even when we have procedures in effect (aerobatic
box).
That is the lesson to be learned. My heart goes out to the family and
friends
of these Airmen, what a tragedy.

I came within 5 feet of an American Airlines MD 80 out of Burbank airport,
and
we were both talking to the same controller (at slightly different times
so I
did not hear the airline clearance). The controller said "sorry guys my
fault," but that would be of little of little condolence to the 92 souls
if we
had hit. Ultimately we can only depend on ourselves. What if you are on
a
victor hwy at FL20 and someone busts the Class A airspace in front of you?
it
is dangerous business even if we just do it for fun and we must always be
aware.

Craig

Questions to ponder:
1)What was the K21 doing at the top of a loop at approx 800 feet agl, and where
was it a few seconds before that, and at what speed?
2)What is the official floor of the aerobatic box, NTSB states surface to 6600
msl, this must not be correct: How can the box be in the traffic pattern and
still extend to the surface?
3)see FAR 91.303(e) for aerobatic flight AGL limitations.



-
Mark Navarre
ASW-20 OD
California, USA
-

On 2004/01/17 20:34, in article
, "Ramy Yanetz"
wrote:

Unfortunately we all fly invisible aircrafts.
Maybe one day all aircrafts will be required to use technology which exists
for many years and can eliminate midairs.

Thinking "invisible" is good.

Tech is, however, just one more trick in your bag. It cannot eliminate
midairs, anymore than ILS has eliminated landing accidents on IMC
approaches. Available technology can assist alert pilots in avoiding
collisions when used properly, and some of it is affordable.

Though I'll install a mode C transponder in my bird and listen up on the
appropriate frequencies, no piece of equipment can give me a decisive
advantage. Preflight planning that helps me know when and where traffic is
most likely to be a threat is necessary. Keeping my eyes outside the
cockpit, and my head on a swivel is essential. Flying a glider with a
standout paint scheme is helpful.

But there will always be days when there are aircraft out there that you
never know about. The best you can do is to work smart and hard to make sure
that those days are few and far between.



Jack