Puch spin in

Well it is mid-winter, when Puch-spinning competes
with the PW-5 flaming, 2-33 viability, and what-sorta-hat-to-wear
as a topic.
(NOT INTENDED TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS
TOPIC)

After a review of old threads on this topic, I was
interested in not finding a pilot's report on difficulty
in the spin-recovery characteristics of this ship.
Anyone out there in ras-world care to comment on a
first-person experience?




At 15:42 23 January 2004, Owain Walters wrote:
Everyone is always an expert arent they?

Why do internet lurkers always have an opinion on things
they dont know the first fact about?

Stewart Kissel wrote:

Well it is mid-winter, when Puch-spinning competes
with the PW-5 flaming, 2-33 viability, and what-sorta-hat-to-wear
as a topic.
(NOT INTENDED TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS
TOPIC)

After a review of old threads on this topic, I was
interested in not finding a pilot's report on difficulty
in the spin-recovery characteristics of this ship.
Anyone out there in ras-world care to comment on a
first-person experience?


The club I am a member of requires spin training in the Puchatz prior
to flying it solo. To demonstrate that a spin is not an
uncontrollable event he had me enter the spin from a nose high
attitude, just prior to the stall I kicked in rudder. I was then to
hold the glider in the spin for two full revolutions before taking it
out. I had to do that in both directions. After that we took another
tow and I did 3 or 4 incipient spins in each direction.

The spins were totally predictable. I do not recall how long it took
to recover from the fully developed spin, but I never had the feeling
we were not going to get out of it.

In the spin the Puch's nose will go beyond vertical. You can really
notice this when flying from the backseat. (The Blanik L-13 will do
this also.)

I was very happy for the spin training I got. Since then I have
gotten into two inadvertent spins. Both times I recognized them for
what they were and recovered with a minimal lose of altitude and no
panic.

BTW, now that I am an instructor I teach spins differently. No one
gets in trouble from an intentional stall then kicking the rudder over
to induce the spin. I teach it by simulating a low approach on base
leg. In this situation the pilot is inadvertently pulling the stick
back, trying to keep the plane up, but actually only lowering its
speed. Often times folks will then make a shallow turn to final, on
the mistaken believe that a shallow turn will loose less altitude. The
turn is initiated in the same place they normally would make their
turn. When it becomes apparent that the runway will be overshot,
still not willing to steeply bank the glider, it is then over rudder
to try to make the turn. Since the pilot has been pulling back on the
stick he is now slow enough to cause a stall and resultant spin too
low to the ground to recover.

After explaining on the ground what we are going to do I demonstrate
the spin , at quite high altitude. I will allow the glider to do about
half a spin revolution. This is enough to get the students attention
to the seriousness of this happening at low altitude, but not enough
to waste a lot of altitude or severely scare the student. I then
have them practice entering and recovering incipient spins in both
directions. I do not solo any student or transition pilot until they
can explain and demonstrate what causes a spin and how to recover
from one.



At 15:42 23 January 2004, Owain Walters wrote:
Everyone is always an expert arent they?

Why do internet lurkers always have an opinion on things
they dont know the first fact about?

"JC" JRC at visi dot com wrote in message
...

In the spin the Puch's nose will go beyond vertical. You can really
notice this when flying from the backseat. (The Blanik L-13 will do
this also.)


(What follows is part of my standard pre-flight briefing to students before
teaching spins -the pro's can ignore if they wish.)

Various gliders may in fact go past the vertical with respect to the ground
but there is more to it. Most of us have the mental picture of a spin entry
sequence as if the glider stops all its forward motion at the stall and
thereafter proceeds straight down in the spin. With a bit of thought, this
is seen as wrong.

In fact, the glider carries substantial forward motion through the stall and
into the spin. The result of this is that the path of the gliders center of
gravity traces an arc that transitions from level flight to vertical in the
spin. (Imagine the path of a Badminton birdie.) Usually, the first full
turn or two of autorotation is in this arc so that, at the 180 degree
points, the glider is somewhat inverted with respect to the ground. To the
pilot, this appears as if the spin is asymmetrical as the glider first goes
past the vertical and then rotates to a more nose-up attitude.

This may well be the source of a lot of the, "Wow, that glider spins funny",
or "It tries to go flat in the spin", type of statements. If the pilot
holds the glider in the spin, the path will become vertical and, from the
perspective of the pilot, will appear to spin symmetrically. With some
gliders, I have seen this take two or more turns.

If the recovery is attempted at the first 180 degree point, the glider will
reach a higher airspeed in the dive recovery and burn more altitude. A
better technique is to apply anti-spin controls at a point that will stop
the rotation at the 360 degree point. The difference in altitude loss can
be substantial.

The higher the airspeed at which the stall break occurs, and the faster the
glider snaps into the spin, the more pronounced this effect appears.

Bill Daniels

On 23 Jan 2004 15:52:31 GMT, Stewart Kissel
wrote:

Well it is mid-winter, when Puch-spinning competes
with the PW-5 flaming, 2-33 viability, and what-sorta-hat-to-wear
as a topic.
(NOT INTENDED TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS
TOPIC)

After a review of old threads on this topic, I was
interested in not finding a pilot's report on difficulty
in the spin-recovery characteristics of this ship.
Anyone out there in ras-world care to comment on a
first-person experience?

I'm due to do annuals some time between now and the start of March,
which will involve spinning the Puchacz. I'm rather looking forward to
it: I enjoy spinning at a sensible altitude. As others have said, in
general its a predictable glider: no surprises in spinning.

However, I have been warned that if you start to pull out too soon AND
still have a bit of anti-spin rudder on it will flick-roll in the
opposite direction and that the only way out of that is to complete
the barrel. Its a fairly draggy glider, so I always pause a bit longer
than usual after the spin stops before starting to pull out.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :