Puch spin in

Hmmmmm, This is terribly sad to read (and my prayers
will be for their family and friends) but also very
pertinent as last Sunday, I took an aerotow to 3000'
and did my 'spinning' and some further exercises in
spinning. What aircraft did I have all this fun in.
. . You guessed it, a Puch. . . . Hmmmm, slightly
sick feeling in the stomach. . . It will be interesting
to read some more detail of the cause and specific
details if they are known. My experience was very positive,
the a/c span very quickly under the instructor's control
as I had been briefed. I just did what it said on the
can and was very pleased to feel the G as I recovered
and found the a/c behaving as per the briefing.

Having said all this and to end on a postive note,
I am hoping to get my first flight in a single seater
this weekend, probably tomorrow, hope you vastly experienced
guys (& gals) can remember just how excellent I'm sure
that must have felt! Any tips???

At 15:06 23 January 2004, Todd Pattist wrote:
Al Eddie wrote:

The issue is more likely to be of type familiarity
and recency in general, not the fact that a particular
aircraft type is totally predictable in its behaviour.

Upon what facts do you base your conclusion that the
aircraft has spinning characteristics that are 'totally
predictable?' Questions have been repeatedly raised
about
the spin behavior of this aircraft. I don't know if
it has
any problem, and I don't know if it has more accidents
than
any other type.

I do know that it is possible for an aircraft to have
unusual flight modes and spin modes that are difficult
to
enter and may occur only rarely in specific flight
attitudes
or other seldom encountered conditions. Unfortunately,
we
don't have perfect knowledge about what happens in
all
accidents. I don't think you can rule out unpredictable
behavior in the spin, nor attribute the accident to
a lack
of 'type familiarity and recency in general.'
Todd Pattist - 'WH' Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

David Pye
Kent Gliding Club
Charing

Mob: 07946-302975
Home: 01732-873088
East Malling, Kent, UK

It will be interesting to read some more detail of the cause and specific
details if they are known.

You'll be lucky! Accident reports are rarely released in any detail. Most
seem to get a one or two sentence wrap up in the back of the S&G Magazine.
The feedback loop to pilots IMVHO is atrocious.

Ian Molesworth

There are two sources for U.K. accident and incident reports.

Those accidents which are investigated by the government may be found at:

Department of Transport, Air Accident Investigation Bureau
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/ , Bulletins (from 1996).

The reports are also published in a printed monthly pamphlet sent to all UK
flying organisations including gliding clubs.

The snag with this database is that it is in order of date (by month) of
publication of the report, and I have not found a way of searching by
accident date. I have made out my own index on a word document, to link by
accident date to the report, of the accidents which interest me; most of
these are to tugs (all of which are reported), a few are serious glider
accidents.

The other source is the British Gliding Association for accident and
incident reports where the BGA lead the investigation.

A very short summary appears in Sailplane & Gliding, and is also included in
an annual summary available in print from the BGA. At one time there was a
link on the BGA web-site to an on-line copy put up by the Essex club.
However I cannot now find that link, and the last time I looked that
database had not been updated for several years.

According to the terms of reference of the BGA Accident Investigators
(available on-line at http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/subcommitteesterms.pdf
see the last of 12 pages), "Subsequent to each investigation a report is to
be prepared, to the format of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch
("AAIB") of the Department for Transport ("DfT"), ----- ".

I have never seen or heard of any of these reports being published or made
available, they are not even given to pilots directly involved in accidents
or incidents, or sent to the reporting club. The DfT publish the reports,
why not the BGA? I think this is a disgrace.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"tango4" wrote in message
...


It will be interesting to read some more detail of the cause and
specific details if they are known.


You'll be lucky! Accident reports are rarely released in any detail.
Most seem to get a one or two sentence wrap up in the back of the S&G
Magazine. The feedback loop to pilots IMVHO is atrocious.

Ian Molesworth