Puchaz Spinning thread that might be of interest in light of the recent accident.

A year or two ago, there were people suggesting that low spins, say
below 1500 agl, were an important training exercise since they let the
student experience the shock of a canopy full of earth coming on
quickly. By having experienced this, the pilot would be able to react
more quickly to the accidental stall/spin in the pattern and thus
effect a faster, safer recovery.

Are you saying that you agree with this, that you practice it, and
that it has become common practice in the UK?

(You note that you start your training at 3000 agl, then imply that
once the student is acclimated, you bring the entry altitude down.)

Chris,

No, I don't think you have to spin below 1500agl, I don't agree with that
practice.

By "doing it time and again until the student realizes...." I just meant
practicing spins repeatedly during the training syllabus, not just once for
demonstration.



"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
A year or two ago, there were people suggesting that low spins, say
below 1500 agl, were an important training exercise since they let the
student experience the shock of a canopy full of earth coming on
quickly. By having experienced this, the pilot would be able to react
more quickly to the accidental stall/spin in the pattern and thus
effect a faster, safer recovery.

Are you saying that you agree with this, that you practice it, and
that it has become common practice in the UK?

(You note that you start your training at 3000 agl, then imply that
once the student is acclimated, you bring the entry altitude down.)

Thanks Arnold, for the clarification.

Do you supplement your spin training with conditioning exercises to
reinforce the prompt movement forward of the stick at the first sign
of an iminent stall? Repeated spin entries could condition a student
to await the stall break, since we are intentionally trying to develop
a spin, recognize it, and recover. "Hold it back. Good. Feed in some
rudder to skid the turn. Good. Now try to pick up the dropping wing.
Good..." This could unintentionally program a student to await the
stall break rather than reacting instinctively to a prestall by
immediately lowering angle of attack.

Where do you put your spin training in the syllabus? And do you demand
stall onset recognition before and revisit after?

I agree that it is wise to expose a student to spins, to the point
where it is recognized and the student demonstrates appropriate
recovery, but I think it is more important to teach onset recognition
and recovery. I'm just trying to get a sense of where in the syllabus
instructors put this skill and why.

Thanks again,

Chris OC

Chris,

Spin training comes right along Stall training. Impending spins first, then
fully developed spins.
Recovery from an impending stall/spin might sometime be as simple as
reducing back pressure and making slight opposite rudder pressure, all the
while continuing the turn. In other words, it may not be necessary to dive
like a rock in the middle of a gaggle because you sense an impending spin.
A fully developed spin on the other hand (such as one resulting from a
cross-controled, or wings-level, skidding turn), may require much more
positive and effective use of anti-spin controls (full opposite rudder and
stick forward). It all depends on the glider and the position of the pitch
trim, some will recover from the spin if you simply let go of the controls.

But spins have to be repeated several times as the student builds-up time,
especially before first soloing any new type of glider, and then on every
BFR. The student will then see all of these different scenarios as his
training progresses.

This is the only way to be safe : With the student having a full
understanding of the different ways it can happen and the different ways to
recover.

"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Thanks Arnold, for the clarification.

Do you supplement your spin training with conditioning exercises to
reinforce the prompt movement forward of the stick at the first sign
of an iminent stall? Repeated spin entries could condition a student
to await the stall break, since we are intentionally trying to develop
a spin, recognize it, and recover. "Hold it back. Good. Feed in some
rudder to skid the turn. Good. Now try to pick up the dropping wing.
Good..." This could unintentionally program a student to await the
stall break rather than reacting instinctively to a prestall by
immediately lowering angle of attack.

Where do you put your spin training in the syllabus? And do you demand
stall onset recognition before and revisit after?

Chris OC