Spinning (mis)concepts

At 01:42 30 January 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:
In article ,
Todd Pattist wrote:

As a matter of interest, how did you handle the request
to
demonstrate a 'no airbrakes' landing where you needed
a
forward slip on both base and final? Did you bring
the
rudder fully through to the opposite side (inside of
the
turn) to intersperse a coordinated turn between your
forward
slips?

Yep. Exactly. I've used slips in taildraggers extensively,
during no-flap demonstrations, and on lots of checkrides.
Always interspersed a coordinated turn. Kinda funny
to write it here now that I think about it. Just something
I haven't done before, I can't really explain why...



Ah, power planes, not gliders! Do you not think perhaps
we should be differentiating between rudder usage in
power plane, and a glider? I started flying originally
in gliders, so I dont have any bad habits from power
flying, and when I fly powered aircraft, i cant help
but fly coordinated all the time. I know that power
pilots who make the transition to gliders quite often
make fundemental errors due to the power mindset when
sat in a glider. What do you think?

Pete Zeugma wrote:

Ah, power planes, not gliders! Do you not think perhaps
we should be differentiating between rudder usage in
power plane, and a glider? I started flying originally
in gliders, so I dont have any bad habits from power
flying, and when I fly powered aircraft, i cant help
but fly coordinated all the time. I know that power
pilots who make the transition to gliders quite often
make fundemental errors due to the power mindset when
sat in a glider. What do you think?

Absolutely there are subtle differences that get overlooked.
Primacy is a factor here. Use of spoilers, wheel brake
not at the feet, no stall horn, can't use throttle to
descend, actually seeing adverse yaw, etc. All these
were probably much harder to learn (unlearn) than if
one started as a glider pilot first.

And the whole idea of energy management for rollout and
taxi was completely new, and the one wheel thing
and possibility of groundloop, etc. etc. etc.

Absolutely there are bad habits from transition.
And catching all of them is unlikely without additional
study by the student or new pilot. Instruction and
experience only go so far...study and discussion for me
seem to take it that extra step...

Cheers!

Mark

This is one of the biggest nonsense myths in the soaring community. It
amounts to an irrational prejudice towards power pilots who transition to
gliders.
There is considerably greater difference between, say, flying a Bonanza and
flying a Boeing 757 than flying any glider.
Gliders are incredibly easy to fly. Simply be aware of the differences.
It really amounts to attitude. (In both senses of the word.)
When flying a Bonanza, think Bonanza. When flying a King Air, think King
Air. When flying a B-757, think 757. When flying a F18, think F18. When
flying a glider, think glider. When flying a motor glider, think glider.
It can't be much simpler.

Allan

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:401acc7c$1@darkstar...
Pete Zeugma wrote:

Ah, power planes, not gliders! Do you not think perhaps
we should be differentiating between rudder usage in
power plane, and a glider? I started flying originally
in gliders, so I dont have any bad habits from power
flying, and when I fly powered aircraft, i cant help
but fly coordinated all the time. I know that power
pilots who make the transition to gliders quite often
make fundemental errors due to the power mindset when
sat in a glider. What do you think?

Absolutely there are subtle differences that get overlooked.
Primacy is a factor here. Use of spoilers, wheel brake
not at the feet, no stall horn, can't use throttle to
descend, actually seeing adverse yaw, etc. All these
were probably much harder to learn (unlearn) than if
one started as a glider pilot first.

....Snip....

"ADP" wrote in message
...
This is one of the biggest nonsense myths in the soaring community. It
amounts to an irrational prejudice towards power pilots who transition to
gliders.

Gosh, don't I know it! After 2+ years of CFIGing, often teaching very
accomplished power pilots transitioning to gliders, I have turned the
tables. I am learning to fly the old fashioned way, bouncing around the
pattern and the practice area in a tired but trusty Cessna. My instructors,
who know nothing of gliders and have never before dealt with any transition
student, see many of my glider "skills" as a series of curious "bad habits"
to be corrected. (They were particularly horrified by my brisk, power-off,
stall recoveries) As they have no frame of reference with which to deal
with me, I just tell them to think of me as a primary student and start from
the beginning.

Vaughn

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"ADP" wrote in message
...
This is one of the biggest nonsense myths in the soaring community. It
amounts to an irrational prejudice towards power pilots who transition
to
gliders.

Gosh, don't I know it! After 2+ years of CFIGing, often teaching
very
accomplished power pilots transitioning to gliders, I have turned the
tables. I am learning to fly the old fashioned way, bouncing around the
pattern and the practice area in a tired but trusty Cessna. My
instructors,
who know nothing of gliders and have never before dealt with any
transition
student, see many of my glider "skills" as a series of curious "bad
habits"
to be corrected. (They were particularly horrified by my brisk,
power-off,
stall recoveries) As they have no frame of reference with which to deal
with me, I just tell them to think of me as a primary student and start
from
the beginning.

Vaughn


You'll be so good at landings they'll probably never get around to teaching
go-arounds.

One day, an airplane will taxi on to your runway while you are on short
final. You'll probably revert to glider mode and land the Cessna on the
grass parallel to the runway. Then, you'll have to think up a really good
story to explain that.

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...



You'll be so good at landings they'll probably never get around to
teaching
go-arounds.

Yep, landings are not much of an issue.

One day, an airplane will taxi on to your runway while you are on short
final. You'll probably revert to glider mode and land the Cessna on the
grass parallel to the runway. Then, you'll have to think up a really good
story to explain that.

I had a talk with the chief instructor about just that the other day.
I explained to her that "go arounds" are not part of the glider experience.
We decided to make that a priority.

Vaughn



Bill Daniels

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...



You'll be so good at landings they'll probably never get around to
teaching go-arounds.

Yep, landings are not much of an issue.

One day, an airplane will taxi on to your runway while you are on short
final. You'll probably revert to glider mode and land the Cessna on the
grass parallel to the runway. Then you'll have to think up a really
good
story to explain that.

I had a talk with the chief instructor about just that the other day.
I explained to her that "go arounds" are not part of the glider
experience.
We decided to make that a priority.

Vaughn


Power pilots think:
Altitude must be exact. Speed is good and more speed is better.

Glider pilots think:
Speed must be exact. Altitude is good and more altitude is better.

Bill Daniels