Spin

I once watched a pilot turn an ASW 20 through 360 degrees after a 75
foot rope break. With each successive 90 degree turn, I heaved a sigh
of relief, until he rolled into the next one. The pilot made three 90
degree left hand turns, at one point dropping slightly below the level
of the runway, until he was lined up to land across the runway. He
made his last 90 degree right turn in ground effect, using rudder
only. I didn't see much of the touchdown or rollout, as I was running
for life and limb. The glider was undamaged. The pilot, on the other
hand...

To my knowledge, he never flew another glider.



"Bill Daniels" wrote in message ...
"CV" wrote in message
...
Fredrik Thörnell wrote:
What does the commentator say about 18 meter (high?) something? Or is

He is saying that the cable broke at 80 meters height. (200 odd feet)
CV

Perhaps someone familiar with the incident could explain why the pilot tried
to turn back from a height of 80 meters. I would expect that, with a wire
break at 80 meters, the pilot would have 75% or more of the airfield
straight ahead for a safe landing. In fact, a 180 degree turn from an 80
meter wire break would leave no place to land at most winch sites.

Bill Daniels

He made his last 90 degree right turn in ground effect, using rudder
only. I didn't see much of the touchdown or rollout, as I was running
for life and limb. The glider was undamaged. The pilot, on the other
hand...

To my knowledge, he never flew another glider.

A turn at low speed with rudder only is an invitation for a spin.
At low altitude, it will usually end exactly the way we saw in this video,
with the glider spinning right into the ground.

If your collegue performed that last turn at very high speed the glider
wouldn't turn with rudder only.
If it was at low speed, and below 2 feet altitude, one of the wingtips
certainly touched first and it wasn't very pretty.

If he was above 2 feet, the result would have been some glider damage.

Arnold Pieper wrote:
He made his last 90 degree right turn in ground effect, using rudder
only. I didn't see much of the touchdown or rollout, as I was running
for life and limb. The glider was undamaged. The pilot, on the other
hand...

To my knowledge, he never flew another glider.

A turn at low speed with rudder only is an invitation for a spin.
At low altitude, it will usually end exactly the way we saw in this video,
with the glider spinning right into the ground.

I wonder if this was use of rudder, or coarse use of rudder.
I suspect the steep bank and different wing airspeeds set it up,
and then an accelerated use of rudder caused the wingtip speeds
to be that much more (a skidding stab at the rudder seems like
it would have a different effect than slowly putting in rudder).


If your collegue performed that last turn at very high speed the glider
wouldn't turn with rudder only.
If it was at low speed, and below 2 feet altitude, one of the wingtips
certainly touched first and it wasn't very pretty.

I've done quite a few turns with level wings and using rudder
to turn below 2 feet. I've done it both on the takeoff
roll (to line up from being way off) behind the towplane, and
after landing to line up with the takeoff runway (about
120 degrees left).

In the first case I probably should have simply released immediately.
In the second case I should have stopped straight ahead.
Not because this was necessary (it wasn't, since de facto
everything worked out fine) but because it would
be better practice for flying a higher performance glider,
where both of these circumstances could possibly create a
ground loop.

The competition pilots stay REAL straight at low airspeeds.
I suspect a few ground loops have convinced them not to
put in adverse yaw (and rudder to turn) during taxi.

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:4023fa90$1@darkstar...
Arnold Pieper wrote:
I've done quite a few turns with level wings and using rudder
to turn below 2 feet. I've done it both on the takeoff
roll (to line up from being way off) behind the towplane, and
after landing to line up with the takeoff runway (about
120 degrees left).

In the first case I probably should have simply released immediately.
In the second case I should have stopped straight ahead.
Not because this was necessary (it wasn't, since de facto
everything worked out fine) but because it would
be better practice for flying a higher performance glider,
where both of these circumstances could possibly create a
ground loop.

The competition pilots stay REAL straight at low airspeeds.
I suspect a few ground loops have convinced them not to
put in adverse yaw (and rudder to turn) during taxi.


Sometimes you have no choice. I had a tow pilot suddenly brake to a halt
just as I lifted off. My choice was to try a flat turn and risk a ground
loop or hit the tug. My wheel brake was useless for the task of stopping
short of the tug and anyway, my wheel wasn't on the runway. Fortunately, I
succeeded in turning the Lark 45 degrees before touchdown using rudder
only - and avoiding a groundloop. (Then I had an eyeball to eyeball talk
with the tug pilot.)

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:

Sometimes you have no choice. I had a tow pilot suddenly brake to a halt
just as I lifted off. My choice was to try a flat turn and risk a ground
loop or hit the tug. My wheel brake was useless for the task of stopping
short of the tug and anyway, my wheel wasn't on the runway. Fortunately, I
succeeded in turning the Lark 45 degrees before touchdown using rudder
only - and avoiding a groundloop. (Then I had an eyeball to eyeball talk
with the tug pilot.)

Bill Daniels

A real good reason to use a little longer rope, eh?
I'm glad you weren't hurt, and I hope you got a good reason and
a beer from the tuggie.

I must say though, when I was taught to aerotow, and to drive a tug,
both instructors said "you don't owe a damn thing to the other guy.
If you have a problem, you release immediately and save your own
arse."

Don't get me wrong, release and potential release at rotation
is one of my greatest fears (it's happened to me a few times,
never initiated by me on purpose). But it is so scary
I didn't even practice a tuggie abort while actually hooked up
during any of my training...

Even if I rehearsed this one on the ground first, I'd still be
pretty apprehensive of practicing this abnormal procedure...

In fact, he did exactly what you said can't be done. He had some help
from the main gear, which touched the runway several times assiting
his skidding turn. If memory serves, he wound up pretty much where he
started, pointing in the opposite direction. There were many, many
witnesses. What parts I didn't see while running, I had recounted to
me in excrutiating detail, mainly because it was my glider. (The pilot
of the 20F, by the way, nearly hit my other glider, a parked Pegase.
The only two French gliders on the airport. Proof again that like
seeks like.)

Better, I think, to start with observed facts rather than to try to
deduce them.

As for owning two French gliders, you are welcome to exercise your
powers of induction.