Landout Laws

One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!

I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages, gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of
any damage and you will be ok.


"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07...
One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!








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Do you happen to know what the value of cotton is per acre?

Were I fly, most often the farmer/rancher is not on site, and I have not
even seen ownership info posted so that I could contact him later. In
situations like this, what should a pilot/crew do to minimize damage, and
reduce the chances of angering the farmer? Is cutting and then repairing a
chain link acceptable or not? If not what is the alternative?

Thank you,

"Birdy" wrote in message
...
I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land
in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages,
gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other
crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of
any damage and you will be ok.


"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07...
One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!








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I don't grow cotton, WAG is $1-2K/a. The farmer has a chain and lock there
for a reason and I would not cut it. If there are workers or houses near,
they should be able to tell you who owns it. You could also call the Farm
Services Agency of USDA, they have maps of every field in the US and can
tell you who farms them. A local crop duster pilot could also tell you who
farms it and could fill you in on if he is going to be hard to get along
with too. I don't think you will have any problem with 95% of the farmers if
you just contact them first. But you can be 100% sure of problems if a
farmer drives up on you after you've cut his fence and driven your SUV into
his field without his permission.

"mm" wrote in message ...
Do you happen to know what the value of cotton is per acre?

Were I fly, most often the farmer/rancher is not on site, and I have not
even seen ownership info posted so that I could contact him later. In
situations like this, what should a pilot/crew do to minimize damage, and
reduce the chances of angering the farmer? Is cutting and then repairing
a
chain link acceptable or not? If not what is the alternative?

Thank you,

"Birdy" wrote in message
...
I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land
in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you
to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages,
gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other
crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would
like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care
of
any damage and you will be ok.


"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07...
One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the
back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to
the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local
glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!








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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----






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All very good posts.... When dealing with a receptive landowner,every efffort
should be made to placate him (or her). The real problem arises when dealing
with someone who is totally intractable. At this point the best alternative is
to call the local authorities and let the legal system deal with the situation.
Regarding the situation in Florida, the landowner arrived at the site, demanded
that the sheriff issue a summons and and absolutely refushed to even talk to
pilots or crews.

That means that the gross per square foot is typically 1 cent, but
sometimes as high as 10 cents. Say you damage 10' by 100'. That
typically would be $10, but might be $100. Not a lot of damage.


Birdy wrote:

I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages, gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of
any damage and you will be ok.

Ok, I'll fess up. I've got 133 landouts in hang gliders.
But it wasn't that big a problem for me after I got my dad involved.

My dad was an Ag Banker in Central California where
I landed out often. The big thing the farmers need to
know is that they aren't going to be harmed financially
after you drag your glider out. Years ago, my dad sent
letters to the local farm co-ops explaining that gliders
exist and on occasion you might find one in your field.
The heads up got most everybody past the first step in
their learning process,facing the unknown. Farmers don't
usually know squat about soaring. For all they know,
your full of poisonous fuel, are radioactive and cause cattle sterility.
If you can educate them before you drop in, you will have a
much easier time on the retrieve.

I took my Hang glider stuff to a few FFA meetings, and explained how
I flew and that sometimes, I don't make it home and might accidentally
become their guest. The kids thought it was cool, the adults were
appreciative that somebody had the forethought to tell them what
was going on above them that migt affect them someday. Quite
a few FFA groups and Farmers Cooperatives got the same program
in the mail. After that, I was treated really well by the farmers I dropped
in on, and a couple actually welcomed me.

Proactivity is more time consuming than making excuses at the gate,
but maybe if the racing organization cared to be good neighbors,
a similar effort might raise awareness to a point where problems could
be avoided. I think I might start with the county sherrifs and move
down the food chain.

Scott Correa

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:09:51 UTC, "plasticguy"
wrote:

: I took my Hang glider stuff to a few FFA meetings, and explained how
: I flew and that sometimes, I don't make it home and might accidentally
: become their guest.

My club exhibits a glider at the local agricultural show every year as
part of a very active policy of stying friends with the locals. It
seems to work!

Ian

--

plasticguy wrote:

Farmers don't
usually know squat about soaring. For all they know,
your full of poisonous fuel

It's not just the farmers.

One day at the '99 USA 15m Nats, I was trying to fly from the Big Spring
TX turnpoint back to Hobbs NM when I ended up landing at the Levelland
TX airport. (If you look up the locations of these three towns on a map,
you'll get a good idea of the size of the thunderstorm that I was trying
to circumnavigate.) The single runway was closed for re-paving, so I
landed on the taxiway and rolled to a stop on the ramp.

I had time to push my Ventus off to the side of the fuel pump area, call
for my crew on the airport pay phone, and strike up a conversation with
the airport manager, all before the next glider arrived. I knew that
Levelland is only 20 miles south of the Caprock Soaring Club's operation
at Littlefield TX, and so was not surprised when the manager told me
that he had seen gliders land here many times before.

I had dumped all my ballast 15 minutes before landing, but Roy Cundiff
did not pull the cork until he entered downwind for Levelland. I left
the airport office to catch Roy's wingtip as he rolled to a stop, with
half a load of water still draining out.

The airport manager came running up to us. He was on the verge of going
ballistic because Roy's Ventus was apparently dumping Jet-A fuel all
over the ramp, creating a huge fire hazard only 100 feet from the fuel
pumps! It took only a short time to convince him that it was merely
water, but quite a while longer to explain why the glider was carrying
so many gallons of water in its "fuel" tanks...

I was gratified that Roy tried as hard as I did not to laugh at this
man's concerns. And that brings me to this bit of advice: NEVER laugh at
anyone during a landout, unless you are sure that they are telling a
joke that they think is funny.

Gary Ittner P7
"Have glider, will race"

How true. I went to pick up 053 during the 2002 1-26 champs, and was
met by a local farmer alongside the field, that Neil had landed in.
Neil had gone down the road with another local farmer, and his gang of
excited kids, to use a phone.

When I pulled up with the trailer this guy gets out of his old pickup.
I introduced myself, and shook his hand. All he says with a very
suspicious tone was "sumpin' goin' on here". I told him yessir, one of
our pilots from the Air Force Academy's 2002 glider contest had to
land in this nice field. He just repeated his first statement and
added" that pilot had him a big bag of something that he carried off
with him".

I told him that the pilot probably had his water bag and his kit
containing his landout phone numbers. He then tells me how he suspects
his neighbor farmer, who had picked up Neil was in on the conspiracy.
Oh boy. Along comes a mom with a couple of kids. She's another
neighbor. The old boy tell's her "sumpin' goin' on here". She looks at
me, kind of rolls her eyes, suggesting to me that she too doesn't
beleive her neighbor here, is wrapped too tight.

So I offer up that I am a professional pilot and would be glad to give
the nice lady my credentials and some phone numbers to check it all
out. The farmer tells her to go ahead and write down the information.
He then goes away happy.

Neil comes back with the smiling farmer and his kids, we load the kids
up in the glider for pictures, and headed back to Bullseye. Some days
I feel like I would make a pretty good car salesman.
Gary Ittner wrote in message ...
plasticguy wrote:

Farmers don't
usually know squat about soaring. For all they know,
your full of poisonous fuel

It's not just the farmers.

One day at the '99 USA 15m Nats, I was trying to fly from the Big Spring
TX turnpoint back to Hobbs NM when I ended up landing at the Levelland
TX airport. (If you look up the locations of these three towns on a map,
you'll get a good idea of the size of the thunderstorm that I was trying
to circumnavigate.) The single runway was closed for re-paving, so I
landed on the taxiway and rolled to a stop on the ramp.

I had time to push my Ventus off to the side of the fuel pump area, call
for my crew on the airport pay phone, and strike up a conversation with
the airport manager, all before the next glider arrived. I knew that
Levelland is only 20 miles south of the Caprock Soaring Club's operation
at Littlefield TX, and so was not surprised when the manager told me
that he had seen gliders land here many times before.

I had dumped all my ballast 15 minutes before landing, but Roy Cundiff
did not pull the cork until he entered downwind for Levelland. I left
the airport office to catch Roy's wingtip as he rolled to a stop, with
half a load of water still draining out.

The airport manager came running up to us. He was on the verge of going
ballistic because Roy's Ventus was apparently dumping Jet-A fuel all
over the ramp, creating a huge fire hazard only 100 feet from the fuel
pumps! It took only a short time to convince him that it was merely
water, but quite a while longer to explain why the glider was carrying
so many gallons of water in its "fuel" tanks...

I was gratified that Roy tried as hard as I did not to laugh at this
man's concerns. And that brings me to this bit of advice: NEVER laugh at
anyone during a landout, unless you are sure that they are telling a
joke that they think is funny.

Gary Ittner P7
"Have glider, will race"