Russia Sailplanes website

(Liam Finley) wrote in message . com...
(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:4035b4c5$1@darkstar...
LOL. I bet you live somewhere a bit flat? Good for you...

Not exactly.

As much as I'd like to support yours and Greenwell's illusions, my
4-cylinder trailering experience includes trips of up to 1500 miles
covering mountainous terrain in the eastern Sierras and Nevada Great
Basin.

It's true, I've never towed my trailer to Lake Tahoe in the snow, but
given that the only soaring operation there closes in September, I
don't see the need.

Try towing something heavy uphill, both ways, in the snow. 3 percent
or
better grade. Sure sure, on the flat roads and beaches of Santa
Cruz I'd tow a catamaran, but a heavy trailer of ski gear up
to Tahoe with four people seemed to like a nice big engine...

The lengths people will go to to rationalize the purchase of these
expensive underperforming little gliders!

Liam Finley wrote:
(Liam Finley) wrote in message . com...

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:4035b4c5$1@darkstar...
LOL. I bet you live somewhere a bit flat? Good for you...


Not exactly.

As much as I'd like to support yours and Greenwell's illusions, my
4-cylinder trailering experience includes trips of up to 1500 miles
covering mountainous terrain in the eastern Sierras and Nevada Great
Basin.

I have no illusions, just an interest in what people are towing, what
they're towing it with, and - what's often missing from the discussion -
the conditions under which they are doing it.

For example, I don't know these things about your towing:

Typical towing speeds
Distance towed each year
Elevations towed over
Peak air temperatures while towing
Length of trip during towing (days, not distance)
Number of passengers and their luggage
Weight of trailer
Weight of tow vehicle

And the number of cylinders isn't too useful: my six cylinder mini van
has less horsepower than my 4 cylinder sedan, and weighs more than the
sedan. I think the sedan would do a better job towing, but I haven't
tried it. It certainly would be more comfortable!

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

(Liam Finley) wrote in message . com...
(Liam Finley) wrote in message . com...
(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:4035b4c5$1@darkstar...
LOL. I bet you live somewhere a bit flat? Good for you...

Not exactly.

As much as I'd like to support yours and Greenwell's illusions, my
4-cylinder trailering experience includes trips of up to 1500 miles
covering mountainous terrain in the eastern Sierras and Nevada Great
Basin.

Try reading your owner's manual, especially the part about towing weight limits.

Liam Finley wrote:
(Liam Finley) wrote in message . com...
(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:4035b4c5$1@darkstar...
LOL. I bet you live somewhere a bit flat? Good for you...

Not exactly.

As much as I'd like to support yours and Greenwell's illusions, my
4-cylinder trailering experience includes trips of up to 1500 miles
covering mountainous terrain in the eastern Sierras and Nevada Great
Basin.

The lengths people will go to to rationalize the purchase of these
expensive underperforming little gliders!

Hehehe. Darn, you got my number. Can't get anything past these
ras guys :P

Yep, it's been a long winter...two more weeks to freedom for
me though! And I've heard rumors of thermals...

Liam Finley wrote:


better grade. Sure sure, on the flat roads and beaches of Santa
Cruz I'd tow a catamaran, but a heavy trailer of ski gear up
to Tahoe with four people seemed to like a nice big engine...


The lengths people will go to to rationalize the purchase of these
expensive underperforming little gliders!

Glider purchases can be rational? I'm reminded of Ed Kilbourne's song
that goes something like "Honey, I need a new glider, the one we have
now just won't do, they've come out with the new LS22. I knew you'd
agree, so I ordered one today,...."

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

2. You can buy a used glider with heavier wings that has
instant maintenance needs for less money. You have all those
hours to work on the glider, but you can't do another
two turns in each thermal? :P
The biggest advantages of the Russia and PW-5 is that they are
small and light and new. This is very convenient.

I dunno about this.......I've seen and owned a number of really nice older
gliders..sure there are plenty of "lumps" for sale out there, but still for
not too may $ you can still find some pretty mint older gliders out
there....maintenance on sailplanes really isn't all that complicated either
and you pretty much can't "ware one out"...you can of course damage one or
mistreat one, you can update one if you like but these are pretty much all
user issues and even new glider buyers do all this too....
but you are right about one thing, some of these new light and ultra-light
gliders are easy to assemble and disassemble and that may be more important
to some of their owners since they probably will need to retrieve them more
often when they don't make the final glide home! :-)
tim

Tim Mara wrote:
2. You can buy a used glider with heavier wings that has
instant maintenance needs for less money. You have all those
hours to work on the glider, but you can't do another
two turns in each thermal? :P
The biggest advantages of the Russia and PW-5 is that they are
small and light and new. This is very convenient.

snip
but you are right about one thing, some of these new light and ultra-light
gliders are easy to assemble and disassemble and that may be more important
to some of their owners since they probably will need to retrieve them more
often when they don't make the final glide home! :-)

If the pilots are flying to the limits of their craft, they'll all
landout about the same. If they are flying to make it home, L/D doesn't
make much difference - the lower L/D glider just doesn't go as far
before turning around and heading b. Landouts are up to the pilot, once
he has some experience.

But to address the weight and size issue: These can actually be an
important factor. One thing that keeps many people from going
cross-country is the potential difficulty of a retrieve. A 600 pound
glider may be more than a guy and his wife can manage, but 300 pound
glider (like a Russia) isn't. Or it may mean s/he can retrieve
themselves, instead of always needing a crew. An easy to retrieve glider
is very liberating for some people, even if it has less performance,
because they are willing to land out more instead of nervously sticking
close to airports.

A high L/D glider effectively puts the airports closer together, but
having a light enough glider so that the retrieve isn't a bitch is a
viable alternative.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Willie wrote:

The PW5 seems to be a good fit for me in terms of performance, but I
have heard and read nothing but negative comments from other
sailplane pilots. Is it really a bad ship? It seems to have the
performance that I'm looking for (33 to 1) or better.


It isn't a bad ship. The negative comments are basically 1) "it's ugly",
and 2) "you can buy a used glider with more performance for less money".

The #1 is personal taste. #2 is correct, but not decisive. If you want a
new glider instead of a much older one, or want to fly in the World
Class, then the PW5 is worth considering. There are groups much more
enthused about the PW5 than some the posters here; for example, try

I forgot to mention that if a PW5 is interesting to you, and a used
glider is acceptable, a used PW5 will be even cheaper.
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change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA