2-33 to 1-26

All good advice except for the one mentioning spin recovery...'Be sure
you know proper spin recovery...'. You should know the signs of spin
entry and avoid one!
Low time pilot, first fight, PIO's, pulling the pin then trying to
turn. Your first priority is to avoid a spin not trying to get out of
one. Get a good sense/advice of signs of spin entry and avoid one.
My two cents.
Don
C-GLUV

People have mentioned spins when discussing the 1-26 both here and in previous
threads over the last couple of years. I got my rating in the 2-33, then spent
some hours in the 1-26, and have also recently had a handful of flights in the
Grob 103A.

I mentioned to the CFIGs/DPEs where I fly the comments made by people on this
group about the 1-26 spinning easily--this was met with various reactions,
though NO ONE agreed that the 1-26 spins "easily".

Those comments, accurate or not, prompted me to get at least some specific spin
training in the 2-33. I am 110 lbs, and usually put 40 to 60 more in the front
seat of the 2-33 when I fly it solo (and before anyone says anything, yes, I'm
one of the weirdos who, despite having my license for a year, still walks away
with a huge grin after flying the 2-33! sue me!!), but when we did the spin
training, I didn't add any weight, and the CFIG is around 185. It took some
doing to make it spin ... by that I mean that seeing what we had to do with the
controls, how long we had to wait, and the multitude of glaring signs that were
visible, audible, and perceivable by feel before it went into a spin, it's hard
to imagine how, in **that** aircraft, the signs of the impending stall alone
could be missed. I realize that's not the case for all aircraft, however.

The comment was made here on RAS: "We teach people in the 2-33 and then put
them into a 1-26 that spins at the drop of a hat with virtually little or no
spin training ... shame on us!" In the hours I've flown the 1-26 (summers in AZ
include some great-but-turbulent weather), I have not *unintentionally* come
close to stalling it, and no, I have not chosen to spin it on purpose.

To those who have stressed the importance of spin training *when talking about
flying the 1-26*, I would like to know specifics -- are you saying it stalls
and spins with little or no warning? If so, I'd like to hear details of
specific instances where this has actually happened to you ... not just the
blanket warning that applies to being aware of stalls and spins in *any*
aircraft...I'm assuming we always have that in mind.

Anyone? (Thanks in advance.)

Shirley wrote:

I mentioned to the CFIGs/DPEs where I fly the comments made by people on this
group about the 1-26 spinning easily--this was met with various reactions,
though NO ONE agreed that the 1-26 spins "easily".

The 1-26 spins "more" easily than the 2-33. The 1-26 stalls "more"
easily and with "less" warning than the 2-33.


The comment was made here on RAS: "We teach people in the 2-33 and then put
them into a 1-26 that spins at the drop of a hat with virtually little or no
spin training ... shame on us!" In the hours
I've flown the 1-26 (summers in AZ
include some great-but-turbulent weather), I have not *unintentionally* come
close to stalling it, and no, I have not chosen to spin it on purpose.

The pitch sensitivity and elevator authority at most CGs of the
1-26 is much greater than for the 2-33. Combine this with the
lack of a back seat (no instructor to help on the first flight)
and a student can "more" easily get into a spin than in a 2-33.
Ideally, flying dual with a student in a glider which is pitch sensitive
with lots of elevator authority, before signing them off for
the 1-26, might have historically prevented some of the
accidents listed at

www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp#query_start

To those who have stressed the importance of spin training *when talking about
flying the 1-26*, I would like to know specifics -- are you saying it stalls
and spins with little or no warning? If so, I'd like to hear details of
specific instances where this has actually happened to you ... not just the
blanket warning that applies to being aware of stalls and spins in *any*
aircraft...I'm assuming we always have that in mind.

The 1-26 stalls with "less" warning than the 2-33. And it stalls
with "less" back pressure (in terms of absolute force applied
to the stick). And the wing stalls "more" uniformly than the
2-33 (where part of the wing, the inner part, stalls well before
the outer part). And the 1-26 has "less" dihedral than the
2-33, and the wing is "lower" with respect to the CG, so
a wing will drop "more" quickly during a stall (causing
a "quicker" spin entry).

I put "lower" and "more" like that to emphasize that no
aircraft spins "easily", just "more" easily and "less" easily
than something else. The only way to really explain
the characteristics is to compare them relatively to
another known aircraft.

Will a heavy person with very short legs and a huge
seat cushion stall/spin with the same stick pressure as
a tall, skinny person with a water bag behind the seat?
Not as easily. CG is a bigger issue for making stalls (and therefore
spins) easier or harder to initiate (on purpose or by accident).

My first flight with rear seat passengers in a power plane,
I almost stalled on takeoff, because the amount of
stick pressure needed for rotation and takeoff was
much lighter than I expected. Fortunately I trusted
the airspeed instead of my motor-mechanical memory of
pressure...

Can you use things like trim forward, or use seat cushions
to get yourself forward on CG, so stalls require more
back pressure? Sure. Will this mean you never inadvertently
stall, spin? Well, if you do this very consistently,
it may reduce the chances. But if one day you forget the
cushions, and trim far back right before landing, this
technique may have the opposite effect and encourage you to put
in more back pressure (since that's what you
always did before).

Sounds uncertain? Well, the airspeed indicator is pretty
accurate, so use it instead of "pressure" to determine
if you're close to stall. The 1-26 that I
fly won't stay in a spin easily, so I'm not worried about
stall/spin at high altitude (above 1500 ft), since I
can recover. In the pattern, I just use airspeed well
above stall. I check airspeed quite often during landing also,
to ensure I'm not getting too slow.

Should you practice a spin in the 1-26 solo to see
what it's like? I don't know, that is a very individual
decision... Should you spin a more "spinable"
trainer dual? If there's one available, it sure is
a good eye-opener...

D.A.L wrote:
All good advice except for the one mentioning spin recovery...'Be sure
you know proper spin recovery...'. You should know the signs of spin
entry and avoid one!

My one and only unintentional spin was on my first flight in a 1-26
(also my first flight in a single seat glider). I was thermalling and my
first sign of spin entry was noticing that the ground and the air had
swapped places. I may be better at recognizing warning signs now :-) but
it was quick. Recovery was a no brainer.

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING