Landout Laws

In article ,
Stefan wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:

I think of unplanned outlandings in the same way I think of
running out of gas in a power plane.

When soaring, unplanned outlandings are part of the game. Running out of
gas definitely is not.

I don't accept unplanned outlandings as inevitable. Carl Herold has
avoided them for a long time, by using good judgement
and doing his homework. If I had an unplanned outlanding,
I would really chalk it up to my own poor judgement, just as I would
think of running out of gas...


For different glider pilots, I think different types of
"outlandings" may be an emergency or may be an "abnormal" procedure.

For glider pilots, an outlanding is neither an emergency nor an abnormal
procedure. It is a perfectly normal procedure that you have been trained
for. If it's not, you've got a lousy training and are not ready for
cross country, period.

I haven't trained this. I never executed an unplanned outlanding
flying dual. And I'm not planning on it either...

But perhaps this is just semantics. The definition of
an "unplanned outlanding" seems quite different in the
hostile forests of Truckee, vs. the flat farmland of the Calif.
Central Valley...

On 2/25/04 2:06 AM, in article 403c579e$1@darkstar, "Mark James Boyd"
wrote:


If I had an unplanned outlanding,
I would really chalk it up to my
own poor judgement, just as I would
think of running out of gas....

Since we are talking about a state of mind (as a set of priorities), no one
can argue with that.

In competition, and even in individual practice/training, others have
priorities which allow for extending themselves beyond the assured and at
least a little way into the realm of chance.

The sailplane land out, per se, cannot be seen as equivalent to fuel
starvation in a powered plane except where pilots of both types
irresponsibly fail to consider the risks and/or act reasonably to minimize
them. The equivalence with running out of gas usually comes when the
sailplane pilot finds his planning and/or execution to be inadequate for
achieving a result to the standards of the community of which he is a
member.

When a combat pilot brings home a ship riddled with holes (or leaves it to
make a smoking hole of its own), whether or not he gets a "dumb ****" award
or an "attaboy" may depend on gun camera film or on how many "friendlies",
on the ground or in the air, owe their survival to his actions: a matter of
risks properly evaluated, priorities established, and goals achieved at an
affordable price.

Of course there are MOH citations for pilots who have gone above and beyond
in a noble cause -- many, if not most, of them rendered posthumously.
Neither SSA Badges, contest points, nor FAI records are awarded on the same
basis.



Jack

Jack wrote:

When a combat pilot

Why oh why do "the" Americans (apologies to those who don't) have such
high esteem for fighter pilots, killing and war? Isn't soaring about
peace and understanding nature? And how dare you to change the subject
line to "Zen" when you talk about war?

Stefan

On 2/25/04 3:44 AM, in article , "Stefan"
wrote:

Why oh why do "the" Americans (apologies to those who don't) have such
high esteem for fighter pilots, killing and war? Isn't soaring about
peace and understanding nature? And how dare you to change the subject
line to "Zen" when you talk about war?

Just stay safely behind your mountains and contemplate the strangeness of us
cowboys, Stefan.

We Americans respect fighter pilots because they are expected to continually
strive for the very best that can be achieved in their realm of aviation --
and a very demanding, unforgiving way of life it is, too. There are even a
few fighter pilots in Switzerland I hear. I'd bet that some of them also fly
sailplanes.

"Zen" in a subject line can't be inappropriate when the importance of clear
insight and value properly placed constitutes the true subject of a post.
Zen is never allowing attention to the means to cause you to lose sight of
the ends. Perhaps you will reread my post with that in mind.



Jack

"Zen is a religion which teaches us not to
look backward once the course is decided."

-------------------------------------------------------------
Today's reading assignment: "The Tiger and the Hummingbird"
http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0285valor.asp
-------------------------------------------------------------

Jack wrote:

On 2/25/04 3:44 AM, in article , "Stefan"
wrote:


Why oh why do "the" Americans (apologies to those who don't) have such
high esteem for fighter pilots, killing and war? Isn't soaring about
peace and understanding nature? And how dare you to change the subject
line to "Zen" when you talk about war?


Just stay safely behind your mountains and contemplate the strangeness of us
cowboys, Stefan.

We Americans respect fighter pilots because they are expected to continually
strive for the very best that can be achieved in their realm of aviation --
and a very demanding, unforgiving way of life it is, too.

Yeah, Tailhook is a bitch ;-)

On 2/25/04 11:10 AM, in article UF4%b.120428$jk2.517554@attbi_s53, "Shawn
Curry" wrote:

...Tailhook is a bitch

Jealousy is unbecoming.


Jack
--------------------------------------------------
Freedom Isn't Free! See the Future in History:
bondage faith courage liberty abundance
complacency apathy dependence bondage.
--------------------------------------------------

Jack wrote:

On 2/25/04 11:10 AM, in article UF4%b.120428$jk2.517554@attbi_s53, "Shawn
Curry" wrote:


...Tailhook is a bitch


Jealousy is unbecoming.

'Scuse me? Slobbering drunk rapist? Never needed that to get laid thanks.

Why oh why do "the" Americans (apologies to those who don't) have such
high esteem for fighter pilots, killing and war? Isn't soaring about
peace and understanding nature? And how dare you to change the subject
line to "Zen" when you talk about war?

Stefan

What you may wish to do to understand this, as a non-American (I'm
not), is to visit Washington DC as I did today, and go to Arlington,
and visit JFK's memorial, and RFK's and the Challenger memorial, and
the Tomb of the Unknowns, and read a few of the 250,000 tombstones...
Then, stand back, close your eyes, and imagine the world (north
America, Europe, many places) as it may be today without these people
in it. We watched a 19 shot, 2 Howitzer tribute executed by a squad of
gentleman who showed absolute pride in their task. We heard of a
recent funeral wherein a B52 flew from South Dakota to Arlington just
for a flyby in respect, part of the funeral rites of a serviceman.

The 'Zen and the Art of.....' inference may come from '....Motorcycle
Maintenance' book some of us enjoyed many years ago. It speaks to the
"difference" with which two people can view exactly the same fact...
the BMW owner who has zero mechanical ability can appreciate the bike,
yet can drive a Honda owner crazy since he does not appreciate the
technology of his ride. I'm guessing some parallel to glider pilots
and how they 'handle' the concept of an outlanding. For me, I learned
nothing until I learned I had to expect an outlanding if I was to
progress. For anyone to assume an outlanding is bad judgement has not
really figured it out yet...sometimes the lift just is not where it is
expected.

Heavy stuff... we need spring!


All very serious stuff.

Mark James Boyd wrote:

But perhaps this is just semantics. The definition of
an "unplanned outlanding"

Maybe.

If "unplanned" means "it wasn't my intention when I started", then
unplanned outlandings are part of the game. Otherwise, you couldn't go
cross country by definition.

If however "unplanned" means "suddenly I realised that the lift was gone
and I hadn't a plan what to do now", then I agree with you. This is
unacceptable.

Stefan

In article ,
Stefan wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:

But perhaps this is just semantics. The definition of
an "unplanned outlanding"

Maybe.

If "unplanned" means "it wasn't my intention when I started", then
unplanned outlandings are part of the game. Otherwise, you couldn't go
cross country by definition.

If however "unplanned" means "suddenly I realised that the lift was gone
and I hadn't a plan what to do now", then I agree with you. This is
unacceptable.

Stefan

Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. From reading your posts and agreeing with
them, I suspected we just needed to get to this little bit of
precision. Thanks for your patience here...

One resource that really has helped in recent years (at least around
here in the Western US) is a good database for potential landouts.
Carl Herold has done some great work in this area,
and between him and local avid soarers we have some remarkable
databases. For guys like me that prefer to aerotow out of a
narrow duster strip than trailer out of some random field,
these databases have really helped improve my alternatives and
allowed me to fly at lower altitudes (and therefore more days)
while still feeling I have safe options.

These databases also list a lot of reliable thermals
(elevators) pilots have found over the years.
Another excellent resource.

It's also been very easy for me to fly a power plane to each strip
to check it out. This has been extremely valuable. Only once have
I found a strip that I didn't feel safe landing, and instead I drove
there, measured and surveyed (with my little GPS), and then said
"boy I'm glad I didn't land there."

For example, a new landout called "Indian Valley" popped up recently
at http://www.soarhollister.com/images/...r500k_8_11.pdf
I haven't had a chance to scout it yet, but it is in a crucial location
where I've been limited from exploring before (due to lack
of confidence in a safe outcome). If it pans out,
it will allow me to explore a potential convergence/sea
breeze front on certain days.

Perhaps best of all, I now feel comfortable flying on perfectly
cloudless days. It's been amazing how many more soaring opportunities
I have had once I had a really firm grasp of landout options
and no longer needed marker clouds as a crutch. Flying on clear days
has certainly been more challenging, but so few pilots do it,
I get the towpilot and glider all to myself all day
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