World Class: Recent Great News

In article ,
Eric Greenwell wrote:
Ben Flewett wrote:

Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.

Some revisionist history going on he I was on SSA Board of Directors
when the World Class was proposed, and these NEVER were the goals. NO
ONE, at the time, espoused the idea that everyone, or even a large
minority, would want to fly the World Class Glider.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


Perhaps the goals included a glider which, like the
505 dinghy, could be (relatively) cheaply acquired and
sailed competitively by sailors of all levels
(especially entry-level) as opposed to an America's Cup
racer...

--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

With the demise and DG's aquisition of LS perhaps Herr Weber could be
persuaded to donate the LS4 manufacturing rights to the IGC. He has already
stated that the LS4 will not be part of the ongoing stable at DG. When an
existing design was suggested at the time of the design competition there
was opposition because those already owning the type would be at some
advantage. This would now be offset by the fact that the owners of LS4 are
currently in an aircraft 'without a manufacturer', surely this affects
peoples decisions to buy used LS4's.

Could LS4's be produced to a world class price? I doubt it but they might
come close if produced in China and Eastern Europe. Perhaps supplied
unpainted or almost ready to fly. Instruments not fitted etc.

The one design idea is supported by almost everyone who comments on the WC
subject. The price does not actually appear to be the right selection tool!
Almost everyone wants an honest 1:40 cross country capable class. The LS4
could deliver that in a very capable manner.

Ian
( Not an LS4 owner - but I used to be and loved the ship! )

"tango4" wrote:

With the demise and DG's aquisition of LS perhaps Herr Weber could be
persuaded to donate the LS4 manufacturing rights to the IGC.

Could LS4's be produced to a world class price? I doubt it but they might
come close if produced in China and Eastern Europe. Perhaps supplied
unpainted or almost ready to fly. Instruments not fitted etc.

That's a very interesting idea, if Herr Weber would be so generous we
would all have to be grateful to him for a long time.
And I think it would open a huge market for DG, in the sale of spare
parts. If the "World LS4 Class" is to be successful, a relevant
minority of pilots might prefer parts coming from a certified and
long-established manufacturer.

Aldo Cernezzi

Eastern Europe is already manufaturing Glasflugel CZ 304- have you
seen the finish of that? And have you seen the quality of the new SZD
products? Guess not...

Earlier, "tango4" wrote:

With the demise and DG's aquisition of LS...

I don't understand. Their latest newsletter says that the deal is on,
and that new LS8 will be available soon. Did I miss something?

Could LS4's be produced to a world
class price?

Sure. And they'd likely have world-class aging issues. In my
experience, most of the things that can be done to make gliders
cheaper to manufacture have a definite impact on what they look like
in ten years.

Perhaps supplied unpainted or almost ready
to fly. Instruments not fitted etc.

Sounds like an HP-24 kit to me.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

Why pick the LS4? Not that the 4 isn't a wonderful ship, but the LS8
is newer, better performance, and would probably not cost much more to
build (isn't cost to build more a matter of materials and size?). And
since there are already a lot of LS8s out there, you have an immediate
"World Class" base of gliders to race.

Build even more LS8s, and cost should go down more (but probably not
much).

If the idea is to have identical ships to fly, that might work. If
the idea is to have low performance inexpensive identical ships to
fly, it obviously won't.

So why not try an LS8 "worlds cup" contest, to see if the idea floats?

Kirk

"Kirk Stant" wrote in message
om...
Why pick the LS4?

For a whole bunch of reasons. Because the LS8 is still in production. If you
pick an aircraft still in production you have to make the choice open to
everyone from HP through to PZL

Ian

I was involved in sailplane coat replacement and I think it's a serious
part of the whole production cost (it took several months for us!!).
Recently I saw gliders painted with the usual car finishing technology
and I think the quality isn't far from what we achieved with the long
sanding and polishing work. How does it effect the real performance and
production cost?

/Janos


Bob Kuykendall wrote:

Perhaps supplied unpainted or almost ready
to fly. Instruments not fitted etc.

Sounds like an HP-24 kit to me.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

Mark James Boyd wrote:

In article ,
Eric Greenwell wrote:

Ben Flewett wrote:


Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.

Some revisionist history going on he I was on SSA Board of Directors
when the World Class was proposed, and these NEVER were the goals. NO
ONE, at the time, espoused the idea that everyone, or even a large
minority, would want to fly the World Class Glider.
--

Perhaps the goals included a glider which, like the
505 dinghy, could be (relatively) cheaply acquired and
sailed competitively by sailors of all levels
(especially entry-level) as opposed to an America's Cup
racer...

Here is the history page of the World Class Soaring Association. The
goals they outline there match what I remember when the idea was
proposed and moved to reality.

http://www.wcsa.org/history.htm
World Class Soaring Association
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:

Here is the history page of the World Class Soaring Association. The
goals they outline there match what I remember when the idea was
proposed and moved to reality.

http://www.wcsa.org/history.htm
World Class Soaring Association

An excellent reference. Thank you Eric!
I'm getting to the point, however,
where I'm really wondering if the objections to
this class are resolveable without changing
the requirements a little.

The requirement for fixed gear seems to be a biggie.
I just can't see how any of the objectors could ever be
satisfied with a fixed gear aircraft.

I suppose one could make a world class glider with
retract gear, and safety wire it down for competitions and
records. But the LS-4 performance with the gear down is, I suspect,
unacceptable to these folks.

The Sparrowhawk at 36:1 is the highest performance
fixed gear glider I'm aware of which has below 35 knot stall
speed. I personally think Windward should lower the redline to
115 KTS also (to allow it as a Sport aircraft). But is the
gear strong enough to handle repeated hamfisted punishment?
Is even 36:1 enough to satisfy naysayers?

I think the answer is no. I think those who don't want
to fly the PW-5 simply won't accept anything with fixed
gear, and/or find it absurd to fly a retract with the
gear safety wired down...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA