Thermal right, land left

At 15:00 15 March 2004, Uri Saovray wrote:
Sure, but that doesn't take care of INADVERTENT opening
of the
spoilers.

So you only check your brakes the once?

Now I dont know about you, but my general visual visual
sweep includes sideways glances down the wings, and
the usual noise that happens when airbrakes pop open
will make me look along the wing. During a launch,
my hand is resting on the airbrake lever too.


Examples: weak geometric lock + some turbulence;

Then the problem there is to fix your glider and not
fly a u/s glider. I've never had airbrakes pop open,
even in rotor. Even the club gliders I fly have a considerable
amount of force to unlock the airbrakes, but then they
are well maintained.

Dual-command + some confusion in the other seat; You
can probably think of more examples...

Actually, my train of thought is just to use good airmanship,
which is free and widely available to everyone, if
they can be bothered!

At 19:12 15 March 2004, Bruce Greeff wrote:
I'm so tight in my Cirrus I can inadvertently open
the airbrakes by moving my
left arm back.

sure you're not over the max loading of it to then?
ever thought of checking it more often since you know
that you can open it so easily, or even having the
overlock adjusted a bit tighter than your fit!

Pete,
Of course you are right about airmanship, etc. Same goes for almost
any other warning system. The fact is that this has happened too many
times, and I have seen it happening to people who's airmanship I DO
respect.
So IMHO, the next question is: If it's cheap and simple enough, why
not???
Uri

Pete Zeugma wrote in message ...
At 19:12 15 March 2004, Bruce Greeff wrote:
I'm so tight in my Cirrus I can inadvertently open
the airbrakes by moving my
left arm back.

sure you're not over the max loading of it to then?
ever thought of checking it more often since you know
that you can open it so easily, or even having the
overlock adjusted a bit tighter than your fit!

At 07:30 16 March 2004, Pete Zeugma wrote:

Actually, my train of thought is just to use good airmanship,
which is free and widely available to everyone, if
they can be bothered!

What a simple and thought provoking statement. I agree

We now seem to be advocating warnings and buzzers for
every eventuality. This is a list of the sounds a pilot
is expected to cope with if everyones idea are translated
into reality, it may not be complete..........

Under carriage
Flaps
Stall alert (2 one for each wing tip)
Tail dolly
Low battery
Canopy
Main Pin
G Meter
Spoiler alert
Aircraft Proximity alarm (only good if everyone has
one fitted)

Add a few more from the motor trade

Tyre pressure alert
Brake pad wear alert

Add to this one essential noise

Vario

And a few helpful ones

Radio
GPS alerts
Turn point alerts
Approaching airspace alerts on nav aides

There could be a competition for the pilot who could
play the best tune in a circuit. Most pilots have
enough to content with looking after the basics.

Concentration should be on good airmanship to prevent
the mistakes not devising instruments to detect faulty
airmanship, thus adding further distractions and workload
when the alarm bells start sounding.

Just imagine when a buzzer that you haven't for several
months starts sounding, and you then have to cycle
all the alarms to try to detect which one it is, crash............
..........

Dave

Dave Martin wrote:

We now seem to be advocating warnings and buzzers for
every eventuality. This is a list of the sounds a pilot
is expected to cope with if everyones idea are translated
into reality, it may not be complete..........

Under carriage
Flaps
Stall alert (2 one for each wing tip)
Tail dolly
Low battery
Canopy
Main Pin
G Meter
Spoiler alert
Aircraft Proximity alarm (only good if everyone has
one fitted)
Tyre pressure alert
Brake pad wear alert

Add to this one essential noise

Vario

And a few helpful ones

Radio
GPS alerts
Turn point alerts
Approaching airspace alerts on nav aides

Nope. I'm only interested in the buzzer that
warns against the problem that caused 50% of the
glider fatalities in the last 10 years.

Only one line on your list does that...

You can keep the rest...

true to form I've not even had an audio Vario in the past year
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

At 20:42 15 March 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
pilots that don't even fly them, such as myself (I
fly an 18
m motorglider).

Eric,

Thanks very much. You have illustrated the whole problem
with the concept of the World Class beautifully.

A bunch of noisy psuedo-philanthropists sitting around
praising the pros of the World Class when they havent
even flown, yet alone competed in the class and judging
by your glider choice (I am presuming an ASH-26e) have
absolutely no intention to.

Owain

Libelle H201 - more performance than a PW5 and half
the price.

Owain Walters wrote:

At 20:42 15 March 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:

pilots that don't even fly them, such as myself (I
fly an 18
m motorglider).


Eric,

Thanks very much. You have illustrated the whole problem
with the concept of the World Class beautifully.

A bunch of noisy psuedo-philanthropists

Not noisy: I think we've been quite restrained. I haven't even called
anybody "rubbish" yet.

Not psuedo: I believe I have contributed considerably to people's safety
and enjoyment of soaring over the 30 years I've been in the sport. And
that's what I think I am doing here, in this discussion, even though it
isn't contributing to YOUR enjoyment.

sitting around
praising the pros of the World Class when they havent
even flown,

I've flown two of them, and enjoyed it. I've also flown one of it's
competitors in the class, the Russia, and enjoyed it. I even flew it in
a Regional contest, letting my glider sit on the ground.

yet alone competed in the class and judging
by your glider choice (I am presuming an ASH-26e) have
absolutely no intention to.

An unpowered glider doesn't fit my desires, but I don't disparage them.
If I were a strong competitor, I'd go looking for a PW5 to borrow or
buy. Frankly, the the only way I'd be a winner beyond the local level in
the World Class would be if I could use the LS4 some people dream about
as the World Class glider.

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Confused Jack wrote:

'As might easily have been anticipated, you have taken
the egoist's approach to my remarks concerning unwarranted
criticisms of the PW-5 and of the World Class concept.
'

'I'm suggesting (and I wonder why you are not) that
I couldn't care less what aircraft someone chooses
to fly, but only about how well they fly it, and ultimately
what I might learn from them (and about them) in the
process.'


OK, just one more time...

I DON'T HATE THE PW5. I DON'T HATE THE WORLD CLASS
CONCEPT. IN FACT, I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA WHICH
IS WHY I ORIGINALLY POSTED ON THIS SITE.

The PW5 has its place in the world and if people want
to fly them - why would I care? Yes, I believe the
PW5 does not represent value for money but I don’t
care if others disagree. However, it would appear
that only 300 people disagree which is not enough to
make an international class. What I do care about
is THE SELECTION OF THE PW5 FOR THE WORLD CLASS GLIDER.

The World Class is an excellent concept and I wish
it were the most popular class in gliding. However,
as a movement we made a bad selection for the World
Class glider which, as discussed, has led to the failure
of the class. I am raising for discussion the concept
of changing the PW5 for a glider that more people will
want to fly so we can have a successful World Class.


We have a problem in that we have committed to the
PW5 until 2009 but perhaps there is something that
can be done here - some suggestions have already been
made as a result of this discussion.

Ben.


At 07:48 16 March 2004, Jack wrote:
On 3/15/04 6:15 AM, in article -b
erlin.de,
'Ben Flewett' wrote:

...[Schumacher's and Barrichello's] 'Mine is bigger
than yours' attitude
is ruining Formula One [and] John Coutts' (top ranked
glider pilot in the
World)...has 'too much money and not enough character'.

As might easily have been anticipated, you have taken
the egoist's approach
to my remarks concerning unwarranted criticisms of
the PW-5 and of the World
Class concept. A F1 Ferrari is as unsuited to the Baja
off-road race as an
ASW 27b is to the World Class. It would be irrational
to think otherwise,
no?

If one chooses not to fly a PW-5 because the level
of competition of which
one is capable requires a mount far more esoteric,
then by all means choose
the more suitable ship. But that hardly justifies the
near hatred expressed
here towards the PW-5. The PW-5 has its place. The
fact that it has not been
universally adopted says more, I believe, about the
psychology of the
sailplane enthusiast than it does about the capabilities
of the aircraft.


Are you honestly suggesting that people should WANT
to sell their beautiful German sailplanes and buy
PW5s?

I'm suggesting (and I wonder why you are not) that
I couldn't care less what
aircraft someone chooses to fly, but only about how
well they fly it, and
ultimately what I might learn from them (and about
them) in the process.


Have you ever flown a glider?

Certainly, though not well enough and not often enough
-- do you suppose
that is the glider's fault?



Jack

The problem here is, no matter how well argued your position that the
PW-5 should be replaced as the world class glider, you've got a group
of people who've invested alot in these things, and if you take away
the World Class designation their resale value goes off a cliff. I
mean, the PW-5 stands out as a poor performer even among other sub-15m
ships, and they know it. Whenever you see a debate over the PW-5 vs.
Russia, or PW-5 vs. Sparrowhawk, or whatever, the PW5er's always end
up invoking the World Class designation as their ace in the hole.

This group of financially interested PW-5 supporters may not be large
enough to form a viable international racing class, but they are large
enough to stand as a roadblock in the way of an improved World Class
in the future.


Ben Flewett wrote in message ...
Confused Jack wrote:

OK, just one more time...

I DON'T HATE THE PW5. I DON'T HATE THE WORLD CLASS
CONCEPT. IN FACT, I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA WHICH
IS WHY I ORIGINALLY POSTED ON THIS SITE.

The PW5 has its place in the world and if people want
to fly them - why would I care? Yes, I believe the
PW5 does not represent value for money but I don?t
care if others disagree. However, it would appear
that only 300 people disagree which is not enough to
make an international class. What I do care about
is THE SELECTION OF THE PW5 FOR THE WORLD CLASS GLIDER.

The World Class is an excellent concept and I wish
it were the most popular class in gliding. However,
as a movement we made a bad selection for the World
Class glider which, as discussed, has led to the failure
of the class. I am raising for discussion the concept
of changing the PW5 for a glider that more people will
want to fly so we can have a successful World Class.


We have a problem in that we have committed to the
PW5 until 2009 but perhaps there is something that
can be done here - some suggestions have already been
made as a result of this discussion.

Ben.

In article ,
Ben Flewett wrote:

We have a problem in that we have committed to the
PW5 until 2009 but perhaps there is something that
can be done here - some suggestions have already been
made as a result of this discussion.

Now THAT is a completely true statement. I must say I'm
remarkably pleased there was as much discussion as I've seen.
This can ONLY improve the participation and decision
in 2009. And that isn't too far off, so get your
opinions to the IGC soon, and start designing and building
your World Class entry...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA