![]() |
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
----------
In article , "Kevin Brooks" wrote: Well, what is really strange that Russia has enough money (due to high oil prices) to spend on military acquisitions.. What acquisitions? They have been buying danged little in the lines of new equipment over the last ten years or so. In the aircraft sector, their emphasis has been almost solely on export production; domestic work has largely been limited to some upgrade work, and they have been having a hard time paying for even *that*. A 2002 study indicated that Russia was putting about 7.5% of the funds into aircraft development/production that they had committed during the Soviet era--that level of funding is not going to stretch very far. Where is that second large (by their standards) aircraft carrier they built going? India. Where are the Su-30's going? India, China, etc. So what are these "military acquisitions" for domestic use that you speak of? Before getting snarky, it helps to count to ten. Notice that he said that they have enough money to _spend_ on acquisitions, not that they are actually acquiring anything. D |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "D" wrote in message nk.net... ---------- In article , "Kevin Brooks" wrote: Well, what is really strange that Russia has enough money (due to high oil prices) to spend on military acquisitions.. What acquisitions? They have been buying danged little in the lines of new equipment over the last ten years or so. In the aircraft sector, their emphasis has been almost solely on export production; domestic work has largely been limited to some upgrade work, and they have been having a hard time paying for even *that*. A 2002 study indicated that Russia was putting about 7.5% of the funds into aircraft development/production that they had committed during the Soviet era--that level of funding is not going to stretch very far. Where is that second large (by their standards) aircraft carrier they built going? India. Where are the Su-30's going? India, China, etc. So what are these "military acquisitions" for domestic use that you speak of? Before getting snarky, it helps to count to ten. Notice that he said that they have enough money to _spend_ on acquisitions, not that they are actually acquiring anything. Well, Mr. Snarky, the fact is that they *don't* have the money to spend--or have you missed their gyrations with executing more and more "barter" exchanges of late? Brooks D |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
----------
In article , "Kevin Brooks" wrote: Well, what is really strange that Russia has enough money (due to high oil prices) to spend on military acquisitions.. Well, Mr. Snarky, the fact is that they *don't* have the money to spend--or have you missed their gyrations with executing more and more "barter" exchanges of late? Do you actually read newspapers? As the original poster noted, higher oil prices have helped the Russians out a lot, bringing in a lot more revenue than only a couple of years ago. A big problem with the Russian economy is that people don't pay their taxes, so the government has been cash poor. But they do have a major asset in oil resources, and when oil prices go up, more money pours into the treasury. So the original poster was right--their revenues have gone up because of increased oil prices. D |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "D" wrote in message ink.net... ---------- In article , "Kevin Brooks" wrote: Well, what is really strange that Russia has enough money (due to high oil prices) to spend on military acquisitions.. Well, Mr. Snarky, the fact is that they *don't* have the money to spend--or have you missed their gyrations with executing more and more "barter" exchanges of late? Do you actually read newspapers? As the original poster noted, higher oil prices have helped the Russians out a lot, bringing in a lot more revenue than only a couple of years ago. A big problem with the Russian economy is that people don't pay their taxes, so the government has been cash poor. But they do have a major asset in oil resources, and when oil prices go up, more money pours into the treasury. So the original poster was right--their revenues have gone up because of increased oil prices. However the OP also claimed those revenues were available for weapons purchases. This does not follow, in fact the total funding for the Russian armed forces in 2004 was $14 billion. Of that only $4 billion was earmarked for purchases and that is for all 3 services. Compared with the defence budgets of the USA ($417 billion), or even the UK ($55 billion) this isnt going to buy a lot of development. Keith ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "Keith W" wrote in message ... "D" wrote in message ink.net... ---------- In article , "Kevin Brooks" wrote: Well, what is really strange that Russia has enough money (due to high oil prices) to spend on military acquisitions.. Well, Mr. Snarky, the fact is that they *don't* have the money to spend--or have you missed their gyrations with executing more and more "barter" exchanges of late? Do you actually read newspapers? As the original poster noted, higher oil prices have helped the Russians out a lot, bringing in a lot more revenue than only a couple of years ago. A big problem with the Russian economy is that people don't pay their taxes, so the government has been cash poor. But they do have a major asset in oil resources, and when oil prices go up, more money pours into the treasury. So the original poster was right--their revenues have gone up because of increased oil prices. However the OP also claimed those revenues were available for weapons purchases. This does not follow, in fact the total funding for the Russian armed forces in 2004 was $14 billion. Of that only $4 billion was earmarked for purchases and that is for all 3 services. Compared with the defence budgets of the USA ($417 billion), or even the UK ($55 billion) this isnt going to buy a lot of development. To put it into perspective against the exported energy values, the estimated total export volume for Russia in 2004 was about $182 billion (according to a US DOE estimate), of which some 55% was credited to the energy sector. So if the Russians put every penny they got from oil/gas/coal/electric exports into their defense budget (a ludicrous assumption, as a good chunk of that money is now going to a Russian hedge fund designed to allow it to survive downward fluctuations in the oil price--apparently they have accrued some $16 or $17 billion in that account since its inception in JAN 2004), it would still be less than 25% of the US amount. www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/russia.html www.citibank.ru/russia/pdf/eng/bal_rus2004.pdf Brooks Keith |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
----------
In article , "Keith W" wrote: However the OP also claimed those revenues were available for weapons purchases. This does not follow, in fact the total ^^^^^^^^^ Compared with the defence budgets of the USA ($417 billion), or even the UK ($55 billion) this isnt going to buy a lot of development. ^^^^^^^^^^^ He was not discussing "development" but "acquisitions" (i.e. "purchases"). Their equipment is relatively cheap to buy compared to the US. What we're discussing is theoretical, and in that regard the original poster was right--the increase in Russian oil revenues _should_ make more money available for buying weapons. But they are not really doing that. D |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "D" wrote in message nk.net... ---------- In article , "Keith W" wrote: However the OP also claimed those revenues were available for weapons purchases. This does not follow, in fact the total ^^^^^^^^^ Compared with the defence budgets of the USA ($417 billion), or even the UK ($55 billion) this isnt going to buy a lot of development. ^^^^^^^^^^^ He was not discussing "development" but "acquisitions" (i.e. "purchases"). Their equipment is relatively cheap to buy compared to the US. The subject line is the Sukhoi PAK-FA - a system IN DEVELOPMENT Duh ! What we're discussing is theoretical, and in that regard the original poster was right--the increase in Russian oil revenues _should_ make more money available for buying weapons. But they are not really doing that. Only if the government had no other calls on the money, it does. Quite correctly (IMHO) they have decided that paying the wages of the people who work for them and getting the healthcare system at least to a level where Russia no longer has one of the worst mortality rates outside the third world are rather more important than developing 5th gen fighters. Keith |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Keith W wrote: "D" wrote in message nk.net... ---------- In article , "Keith W" wrote: However the OP also claimed those revenues were available for weapons purchases. This does not follow, in fact the total ^^^^^^^^^ Compared with the defence budgets of the USA ($417 billion), or even the UK ($55 billion) this isnt going to buy a lot of development. ^^^^^^^^^^^ He was not discussing "development" but "acquisitions" (i.e. "purchases"). Their equipment is relatively cheap to buy compared to the US. The subject line is the Sukhoi PAK-FA - a system IN DEVELOPMENT Duh ! What we're discussing is theoretical, and in that regard the original poster was right--the increase in Russian oil revenues _should_ make more money available for buying weapons. But they are not really doing that. Only if the government had no other calls on the money, it does. Quite correctly (IMHO) they have decided that paying the wages of the people who work for them and getting the healthcare system at least to a level where Russia no longer has one of the worst mortality rates outside the third world are rather more important than developing 5th gen fighters. Keith But i wonder what a fully funded Sukhoi or Mig could produce? They seem to have done a lot on table scraps......... Bob ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
1.
But they are not really doing that. And question is why?! 2. Compared with the defence budgets of the USA ($417 billion), or even the UK ($55 billion) this isnt going to buy a lot of development. You should see this page re Russian Economy http://www.warfare.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57 3. Do you have any information about Tu-202 stealth bomber? |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "forties" wrote in message oups.com... 1. But they are not really doing that. And question is why?! Because they have much more pressing needs for every ruble in hard cash they can get. 2. Compared with the defence budgets of the USA ($417 billion), or even the UK ($55 billion) this isnt going to buy a lot of development. You should see this page re Russian Economy http://www.warfare.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57 3. Do you have any information about Tu-202 stealth bomber? Another stillborn paper concept, from what I gather. The only projects the Russians have made any progress on are the ones that offer significant export potential (like the spirals for the MiG-29, Su-27, and Su-30) or the ones that they can get foreign development capital to support. They are scratching hard to try and meet their obligations for the An-70 project, and are behind the power curve on that one already. The single project aimed at production to meet significant domestic needs that they have pursued of late appears to be their new trainer/lead-in-fighter-trainer project. As Keith quite accurately pointed out, their defense budget just will not support any major new combat aircraft development right now, with the exception of those programs they may jointly pursue with India and/or China. Brooks |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
SU-29 vs Extra 300L? | [email protected] | Aerobatics | 6 | December 14th 04 07:51 PM |
best US jet vs Russian jets? | ville terminale | Military Aviation | 86 | March 12th 04 05:27 PM |
India refuses delivery of Sukhoi jets... | Thomas J. Paladino Jr. | Military Aviation | 2 | December 17th 03 10:58 PM |
Fly MiG and Sukhoi Jets | Webmaster | Military Aviation | 0 | July 9th 03 06:53 PM |