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Reprise - Oxygen concerns



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 23rd 04, 04:46 PM
Eric Greenwell
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Bill Daniels wrote:


At 16,000 ft., I can't tell the difference with or without O2.



Unfortunately, feeling fine can be one of the first symptoms of hypoxia.
How you FEEL means little. The only quantitative measure of hypoxia is a
pulse oxymeter. Borrow one the next time you fly. The numbers will likely
surprise you.


Since he feels (or at least "can't tell the difference") the same with
and without oxygen, are you suggesting he was hypoxic without the oxygen
but just couldn't tell that he was functioning differently than with the
oxygen?

I often do a similar test when flying with oxygen: I go to 100% for a
couple of minutes; if I then still feel the same and my decisions still
seem sensible, I assume I've been getting enough oxygen.

Does seem like an adequate test for altitudes up to 25,000', the highest
I've gone? I've not used an oximeter, so I don't know what my readings
are before or after.
--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

  #2  
Old May 24th 04, 12:47 AM
ADP
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Thank you Eric.

I didn't say I felt fine, I said I can't tell the difference.
Above about 20,000 ft or so, I can tell the difference. I start to get a
headache and my ears tingle.
In addition, even at lower altitudes, if I divert blood from my brain, (how
does he do that, you ask?) by eating
a sandwich or the like, I have to get on O2 immediately. I can really tell
the difference.

No Bill, I am not a Sherpa and I can't quarrel with the acclimatization
point. I can only tell you what I experience.
There is no such thing as too much education and/or knowledge, so I can't
disagree with you there.

I haven't gone over 26,000 ft so my descriptions are only valid - for me -
up to that altitude.

I'm not really disagreeing with what you say, only with the thought that
regulations are required to make
it work. All the regulations in the world have not stopped stall-spin
accidents. How about we work on
that one?

Allan

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:


At 16,000 ft., I can't tell the difference with or without O2.



Unfortunately, feeling fine can be one of the first symptoms of hypoxia.
How you FEEL means little. The only quantitative measure of hypoxia is
a
pulse oxymeter. Borrow one the next time you fly. The numbers will
likely
surprise you.


Since he feels (or at least "can't tell the difference") the same with and
without oxygen, are you suggesting he was hypoxic without the oxygen but
just couldn't tell that he was functioning differently than with the
oxygen?


...Snip....



  #3  
Old May 24th 04, 02:46 PM
Bill Daniels
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Posts: n/a
Default


"ADP" wrote in message
...
Thank you Eric.

I didn't say I felt fine, I said I can't tell the difference.
Above about 20,000 ft or so, I can tell the difference. I start to get a
headache and my ears tingle.
In addition, even at lower altitudes, if I divert blood from my brain,

(how
does he do that, you ask?) by eating
a sandwich or the like, I have to get on O2 immediately. I can really

tell
the difference.

No Bill, I am not a Sherpa and I can't quarrel with the acclimatization
point. I can only tell you what I experience.
There is no such thing as too much education and/or knowledge, so I can't
disagree with you there.

I haven't gone over 26,000 ft so my descriptions are only valid - for me -
up to that altitude.

I'm not really disagreeing with what you say, only with the thought that
regulations are required to make
it work. All the regulations in the world have not stopped stall-spin
accidents. How about we work on
that one?

Allan


Allan, we absolute agree about additional regulation.

My point is that we should use good oxygen systems, a pulse oxymeter and
read all the important literature.

Bill Daniels

  #4  
Old May 24th 04, 02:39 PM
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:


At 16,000 ft., I can't tell the difference with or without O2.



Unfortunately, feeling fine can be one of the first symptoms of hypoxia.
How you FEEL means little. The only quantitative measure of hypoxia is

a
pulse oxymeter. Borrow one the next time you fly. The numbers will

likely
surprise you.


Since he feels (or at least "can't tell the difference") the same with
and without oxygen, are you suggesting he was hypoxic without the oxygen
but just couldn't tell that he was functioning differently than with the
oxygen?

Exactly.

I often do a similar test when flying with oxygen: I go to 100% for a
couple of minutes; if I then still feel the same and my decisions still
seem sensible, I assume I've been getting enough oxygen.

Does seem like an adequate test for altitudes up to 25,000', the highest
I've gone? I've not used an oximeter, so I don't know what my readings
are before or after.
--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

As one AME put it to me, "If you are self-diagnosing hypoxia without a pulse
oxymeter, you have a fool for a doctor".

I think this is one of the central danger points of aviation oxygen use.
The presumption that a pilot who has a lot on his plate can self-diagnose
hypoxia symptoms has been in use since before WWII with dubious results to
say the least. Inexpensive pulse oxymeters have finally brought some
objectivity to oxygen use. I highly recommend them.

This is especially true with inconsistent oxygen delivery systems like nasal
cannulas.

Bill Daniels

 




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