Cambridge 302 -or- Borgelt B50 plus data logger

Hi,

I think there may some confusion on what the 302A can and can't do, and a
bug in Glide Navigator II. We recently realized that Glide Navigator II had
issues with the 302A (GPS/Logger) because it was confusing it with a 302
(GPS/logger/vario). Since the wind data was not being received from the
302A (as it would be from a 302) Glide Navigator II was displaying wind of 0
at all times. Today I tested the bug fix version of Glide Navigator II in
flight and it worked great with my 302A. The wind information was displayed
and looked correct to me. It should be available on my web site tomorrow
(Thursday) evening.

So, the answer to the question is that no, I'm pretty sure (but could be
wrong) that the 302A does not calculated wind speed and direction. But
using soaring flight software like Glide Navigator II or pocket*StrePla
(also tested today with my 302A) works great as the software calculates wind
speed and direction while thermalling.

I don't think Volksloggers calculate wind while circling either.

Does that make sense?

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Romeo Delta" wrote in message
om...
John Galloway wrote:

...the 302A cannot calculate winds
and GN11 also does not do a wind calculation when attached to a 302A.

Dear John,

I appreciate your considered response and don't mean to cast
dispersion; however,

Are you 100% positive that the 302A cannot calculate winds? This
seems odd for any GPS not to be able to do so.

Can anyone verify this?

RD

If you are looking for a logger that calculates wind speed and
direction, the Colibri will do this and display it on the units
screen.

Kevin

If you are looking for a logger and Pocket PC system with a moving map and
reachable airports highlighted on the screen, Glide Navigator II and a
Cambridge 302A will automatically calculate and display wind speed and
direction. The 302A offers more memory for flight logs and waypoints than
any other logger. It is very nice to never have to worry about whether your
logger is going to run out of memory.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Kevin Christner" wrote in message
...
If you are looking for a logger that calculates wind speed and
direction, the Colibri will do this and display it on the units
screen.

Kevin

"Paul Remde" wrote in message news:Tmxtc.2135$4A6.1123@attbi_s52...
If you are looking for a logger and Pocket PC system with a moving map and
reachable airports highlighted on the screen, Glide Navigator II and a
Cambridge 302A will automatically calculate and display wind speed and
direction. The 302A offers more memory for flight logs and waypoints than
any other logger. It is very nice to never have to worry about whether your
logger is going to run out of memory.


Of course... any PDA program can calculate wind from the groundspeed
method. WinPilot, mCU, GlideNav, pStrePla, flyWithCE, free programs
like GPSLOG and Soaringpilot.

While having all that memory is nice, whether or not all that memory
is actually useful is completley up in the Air. I have a sample rate
of 4 seconds and this provides 16hrs on my colibri. Chances are, if
you don't download a flight right away you dont care too much about
it. The other disadvantage of the 302a that I see is that its panel
mounted.... you need a laptop or PDA to get the logs. With the
Colibri, Volkslogger, and SDI Posigraph, you can bring it home and use
your desktop, or take it to the scorer at a contest.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I'm sure that some people will prefer a portable logger and some will prefer
one mounted in the panel. The 302A works best when mounted in the panel,
but there is no requirement that it be mounted in the panel. I flew with
mine stowed behind me today in an SZD Junior. There is no need to view it
in flight. I used double sized plastic tape to secure the GPS antenna to
the top of the 302A. I also attached a RAM base with 1" ball so that I can
mount it on the canopy in our club's ASK-21. It worked fine, but is a bit
clunky. Another mounting solution would be to put it behind the instrument
panel (not using a hole in the panel) - secured to another instrument.

As someone else pointed out in another posting, a portable logger is not as
nice for a syndicate because if someone takes it home for downloading it may
not be available for the other syndicate partners when they need it. That
is not a problem when it is mounted in (or behind) the instrument panel.

You say the Colibri logs for 16 hours at 4 second intervals. That is pretty
good - definitely acceptable. But the 302A can log for 25 hours at 1 second
intervals. That makes the 3D flight replay very smooth in StrePla - I like
that.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Kevin Christner" wrote in message
om...
"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:Tmxtc.2135$4A6.1123@attbi_s52...
If you are looking for a logger and Pocket PC system with a moving map
and
reachable airports highlighted on the screen, Glide Navigator II and a
Cambridge 302A will automatically calculate and display wind speed and
direction. The 302A offers more memory for flight logs and waypoints
than
any other logger. It is very nice to never have to worry about whether
your
logger is going to run out of memory.


Of course... any PDA program can calculate wind from the groundspeed
method. WinPilot, mCU, GlideNav, pStrePla, flyWithCE, free programs
like GPSLOG and Soaringpilot.

While having all that memory is nice, whether or not all that memory
is actually useful is completley up in the Air. I have a sample rate
of 4 seconds and this provides 16hrs on my colibri. Chances are, if
you don't download a flight right away you dont care too much about
it. The other disadvantage of the 302a that I see is that its panel
mounted.... you need a laptop or PDA to get the logs. With the
Colibri, Volkslogger, and SDI Posigraph, you can bring it home and use
your desktop, or take it to the scorer at a contest.

Kevin

"Paul Remde" wrote:

...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.

Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

Is any nav software able to do either?

Ray

Romeo Delta wrote:

"Paul Remde" wrote:


...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.


Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

As a user of GNII and a 302: if the GNII is connected to the 302, then
yes; if it's connected to "just a GPS" (like my Cambridge model 20),
then no.

Is any nav software able to do either?

The nav software also needs the airspeed information, or heading
information (compass). Just a GPS input isn't enough to update wind info
while cruising.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Romeo Delta wrote:

"Paul Remde" wrote:


...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.


Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

As a user of GNII and a 302: if the GNII is connected to the 302, then
yes; if it's connected to "just a GPS" (like my Cambridge model 20),
then no.

Is any nav software able to do either?

The nav software also needs the airspeed information, or heading
information (compass). Just a GPS input isn't enough to update wind info
while cruising.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


By "enroute" I think RD meant straight flight. To solve for accurate winds
without turning, you need four pieces of data: Ground Track, Groundspeed,
True Airspeed and Heading.

The first two are available now from GPS. True Airspeed can be obtained
with a differential pressure sensor and air temperature. A good heading
sensor is the tough nut. I notice that marine navigation vendors are
beginning to sell GPS based heading sensors using two antennas and receivers
in one box. They're expensive but, being pure electronics, the price will
likely come down

I know that reasonably accurate wind data can be computed if the glider
makes slight turns while gliding between thermals. However, after decades
of powered flight, I habitually make very straight glides and the accuracy
of the wind data becomes highly suspect. Super accurate wind info while in
a straight glider would be very helpful finding convergence zones.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:

By "enroute" I think RD meant straight flight. To solve for accurate winds
without turning, you need four pieces of data: Ground Track, Groundspeed,
True Airspeed and Heading.

The first two are available now from GPS. True Airspeed can be obtained
with a differential pressure sensor and air temperature. A good heading
sensor is the tough nut. I notice that marine navigation vendors are
beginning to sell GPS based heading sensors using two antennas and receivers
in one box. They're expensive but, being pure electronics, the price will
likely come down

I'm already carrying two gps units, but they don't talk to each other!
Maybe mounting a Garmin Geko on each wing tip, then combining their
output would give us a heading. Mike B ought to be able to do that with
his RS232 combiner box and a small mod to his flight computer software.


I know that reasonably accurate wind data can be computed if the glider
makes slight turns while gliding between thermals. However, after decades
of powered flight, I habitually make very straight glides and the accuracy
of the wind data becomes highly suspect. Super accurate wind info while in
a straight glider would be very helpful finding convergence zones.

Glide Navigator II and probably other software can display the error
between measured headwind (using IAS and ground speed) and headwind
calculated from the vector wind in use. An error over +/- 2 knots is a
good indication the vector wind in use isn't valid anymore. If I care
about the wind, I'll update the vector wind calculation by deviating
from a straight course, or even making one circle.

It's not as good as a system using headings, but it works well most of
the time.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA