Update on the SparrowHawk and more....

"snip....Why would I ever register the SparrowHawk?

If you want to fly with other aircraft, especially in formation flight, you
might have to. Sailplanes are already treated like poor second cousins to
the aviation community and ultralight aircraft and hang gliders are even
lower on the pecking order.

The Sparrowhawk's new category of ultralight sailplanes could fit a viable
niche, especially with a US manufacturer. But you'll probably get quicker
acceptance (and more people to tow you) if you stick an "N" number on it and
carry your pilot certificate.

The SparrowHawk straddles the border between aircraft
and ultralights

Which is exactly why you are going to have problems, especially in the US!

Mike

ASW 20 WA

The Sparrowhawk's new category of ultralight sailplanes could fit a viable
niche, especially with a US manufacturer. But you'll probably get quicker
acceptance (and more people to tow you) if you stick an "N" number on it
and
carry your pilot certificate.

Part 103 covering ultralights does not mention "ultralight sailplanes"..
they are "unpowered ultralights" .. and not even a "Sailplane"... which
further compounds the confusion on the issue..

I agree with you.. I like the "sparrowhawk" concept.. and if at all
possible.. when I get mine.. it will have an n-number..

BT

Michael Stringfellow wrote:

"snip....Why would I ever register the SparrowHawk?

If you want to fly with other aircraft, especially in formation flight, you
might have to.

Could you elaborate on this? Do you mean thermalling with other gliders,
or being towed?

Sailplanes are already treated like poor second cousins to
the aviation community and ultralight aircraft and hang gliders are even
lower on the pecking order.

You must be hanging around the wrong "communities"! The ones I talk to
are always grinning and saying "I've always wanted to do that", or "It
must be so quiet up there", and "You flew 100 miles in it!?", just about
anywhere I assemble mine.



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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Michael Stringfellow wrote:

"snip....Why would I ever register the SparrowHawk?

If you want to fly with other aircraft, especially in formation flight,
you
might have to.

Could you elaborate on this? Do you mean thermalling with other gliders,
or being towed?



If you read part 103, you will find a requirement to in 103.13
as follows

§103.13 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.

(a) Each person operating an ultralight vehicle shall maintain vigilance so
as to see and avoid aircraft and shall yield the right-of-way to all
aircraft.

(b) No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a
collision hazard with respect to any aircraft.

(c) Powered ultralights shall yield the right-of-way to unpowered
ultralights.



I think this prohibits gaggle flying with registered sailplanes because if
you are there, a collision hazard, however small, exists.

It also places the final duty to avoid on the ultralight. If you are
circling FDH (fat dumb and happy) with a bunch of your buddies and some
moron enters the thermal circling the wrong way without a radio and you hit
each other, it is YOUR FAULT because you failed to yield to the registered
aircraft. Another interesting item in 103 is the requirement that it be
operated only under 103. That means once you go part 91 with it, you can't
go back. Converting back and forth isn't allowed.



§103.3 Inspection requirements.


(a) Any person operating an ultralight vehicle under this part shall, upon
request, allow the Administrator, or his designee, to inspect the vehicle to
determine the applicability of this part.

(b) The pilot or operator of an ultralight vehicle must, upon request of the
Administrator, furnish satisfactory evidence that the vehicle is subject
only to the provisions of this part.



Part 103 is short and a must read if you are to understand the rules. ALSO
Unpowered ultralights don't get the weight of a BRS waived. If you install
it, it counts against the 155 pound limit.



Scott.

plasticguy wrote:
"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...

Michael Stringfellow wrote:


"snip....Why would I ever register the SparrowHawk?

If you want to fly with other aircraft, especially in formation flight,

you

might have to.

Could you elaborate on this? Do you mean thermalling with other gliders,
or being towed?




If you read part 103, you will find a requirement to in 103.13
as follows

§103.13 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.

(a) Each person operating an ultralight vehicle shall maintain vigilance so
as to see and avoid aircraft and shall yield the right-of-way to all
aircraft.

(b) No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a
collision hazard with respect to any aircraft.

(c) Powered ultralights shall yield the right-of-way to unpowered
ultralights.



I think this prohibits gaggle flying with registered sailplanes because if
you are there, a collision hazard, however small, exists.

That's an extremely stringent interpretation of "collision hazard".
Thank goodness the FAA doesn't use it in general, or only airliners
would be flying. I doubt that the FAA uses your interpretation for
ultralights, since we have powered ultralights flying from our airport
(and many others), where they are clearly a greater collision hazard to
pattern traffic than a glider thermalling with other gliders.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric:

I meant both. There are specific FARs for flying in close proximity, both
towing and, presumably, thermalling. However, these all refer to aircraft
or gliders, not ultralights.

It also seems that the FAA does not regard "ultralight vehicles" as
aircraft, so my interpretation would be that towing an ultralight by an
aircraft is not specifically permitted by the FARs. I thnk the same would go
for formation flying, including thermalling. Even if not forbidden, I bet
if you ask the question, the answer would be "no!"

(I'm not saying these rules are correct or sensible - I've thermalled safely
with an ultralight sailplane and hang gliders and I'm sure the Sparrowhawk
is safer to tow than some of the flying matchwood that's out there- just
trying to figure out the rules.)

And I have to agree that most pilots don't think badly of gliders, I was
really referring to the local, state and federal infrastructures, which seem
geared to airplanes - the bigger and more engines, the better! I and my
colleagues have landed out at many private strips and have never been made
to feel unwelcome. On one occasion, a retired airline pilot thrust a cold
beer into my hand as I stepped out of the cockpit onto his fromt lawn at an
private airpark!

Mike



"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Michael Stringfellow wrote:

"snip....Why would I ever register the SparrowHawk?

If you want to fly with other aircraft, especially in formation flight,
you
might have to.

Could you elaborate on this? Do you mean thermalling with other gliders,
or being towed?

Sailplanes are already treated like poor second cousins to
the aviation community and ultralight aircraft and hang gliders are even
lower on the pecking order.

You must be hanging around the wrong "communities"! The ones I talk to
are always grinning and saying "I've always wanted to do that", or "It
must be so quiet up there", and "You flew 100 miles in it!?", just about
anywhere I assemble mine.



--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Michael Stringfellow wrote:

"snip....Why would I ever register the SparrowHawk?

My home airport of Watsonville has in the airport rules
that ultralight takeoffs and landings are at the discretion
of the airport manager (need his approval). N numbered
aircraft do not.

I don't know the rules at towered airports, but they may be similar.
On the other hand, except for noise reasons, I haven't heard
of any N numbered aircraft being denied use of a federally
funded airport...
--

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Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA