IFR in motorglider?

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:40e9f92c$1@darkstar...
ADP wrote:
Interesting.

While I doubt any motor glider can meet the requirements for flying IFR (and
no unpowered glider can),


Goodness no. I believe unpowered gliders can and have
flown in controlled airspace, and under IFR, and quite recently and
legally in the USA. There was a recent high-altitude downwind dash
in wave over the Sierras by a savy, experienced ATP that did just
this, IIRC. Somebody who doesn't have to rush home
for dinner like I must can perhaps chime in here...


flying in clouds in uncontrolled airspace seems to
be a simple matter of having an instrument rating and having no day VFR
restrictions in your glider handbook or operating restrictions.


Goodness, yes. Carl Herold by secondhand info seems
to have 300 hrs + glider IMC this way. But again, I may
be deifying him rather than stating fact...best to
get his input directly I suspect...


Although a bit rare, none of this seems outside of the
realm of legality. Certainly very risky if one
chooses needle, ball, airspeed alone without
much recent experience this way, but
not illegal with certain caveats.

I will remind you that the original post was whether it was legal to
fly said glider WITHOUT A CURRENT MEDICAL! The answer to this question
must be an unequivocal NO!

Tom

Why must it be an unequivocal no?

Please site your sources.

Allan

"Tom Seim" wrote in message
om...
(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message
news:40e9f92c$1@darkstar...
ADP wrote:
I will remind you that the original post was whether it was legal to
fly said glider WITHOUT A CURRENT MEDICAL! The answer to this question
must be an unequivocal NO!

Tom

"ADP" wrote in message ...
Why must it be an unequivocal no?

Please site your sources.

61.23

Where in 61.23? In fact, it says precisely the opposite.

"Tom Seim" wrote in message
om...
"ADP" wrote in message
...
Why must it be an unequivocal no?

Please site your sources.

61.23

"ADP" wrote in message ...
Where in 61.23? In fact, it says precisely the opposite.

IFR flight requires an "Instrument-Airplane" rating. "Airplane"
requires a medical. There is no "Instrument-Glider" rating.

Tom

Well Tom,

Wrong again.

You may have an instrument rating in a helicopter or an autogiro (powered
lift). Clearly they are not "Airplanes".

I am aware that there is no instrument glider designation but that is not
the point.

As I have already exhaustively pointed out, a motor glider is considered a
powered aircraft for the purposes of 14 CFR 91.205. That being the case, a
current IFR ticket (however defined) will enable you to fly a properly
equipped motor glider under IFR.
14 CFR 61.23 B(8) also says that you do not need a medical to take a test or
check for a certificate, rating or authorization when using a flight
simulator or flight training device.

Also, 14 CFR 61.3 (E)(3) specifies that to fly a glider under IFR you may
have a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an
AIRPLANE instrument rating.

Thus, you may renew your instrument rating, take a check or become current
without any medical at all.

In addition, the recency requirements for flying IFR under 14 CFR
61.57(C)(2) i and ii allow you to become current with:
1. 3 hours instrument time in as glider in flight -simulated or actual.
(For which no medical is required), or
2. Up to 1.5 hrs in an aircraft of a total of 3 hours in flight and ( if you
can persuade the other pilot to be PIC) no medical is required.

So, despite the desire of almost everyone here to rewrite the regulations to
suit their particular prejudices,
we can do what is permitted and safe and this is one of those things..

Allan

"Tom Seim" wrote in message
om...
"ADP" wrote in message
...
Where in 61.23? In fact, it says precisely the opposite.

IFR flight requires an "Instrument-Airplane" rating. "Airplane"
requires a medical. There is no "Instrument-Glider" rating.

Tom

"ADP" wrote in message ...
Well Tom,

Wrong again.

You may have an instrument rating in a helicopter or an autogiro (powered
lift). Clearly they are not "Airplanes".

Picky, picky. Same difference.


I am aware that there is no instrument glider designation but that is not
the point.

As I have already exhaustively pointed out, a motor glider is considered a
powered aircraft for the purposes of 14 CFR 91.205. That being the case, a
current IFR ticket (however defined) will enable you to fly a properly
equipped motor glider under IFR.
14 CFR 61.23 B(8) also says that you do not need a medical to take a test or
check for a certificate, rating or authorization when using a flight
simulator or flight training device.

Also, 14 CFR 61.3 (E)(3) specifies that to fly a glider under IFR you may
have a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an
AIRPLANE instrument rating.

Thus, you may renew your instrument rating, take a check or become current
without any medical at all.

In addition, the recency requirements for flying IFR under 14 CFR
61.57(C)(2) i and ii allow you to become current with:
1. 3 hours instrument time in as glider in flight -simulated or actual.
(For which no medical is required), or
2. Up to 1.5 hrs in an aircraft of a total of 3 hours in flight and ( if you
can persuade the other pilot to be PIC) no medical is required.

I concede the point that, in this special case, it is possible to
maintain IFR currency without a current medical.


So, despite the desire of almost everyone here to rewrite the regulations to
suit their particular prejudices,
we can do what is permitted and safe and this is one of those things..

That is not to say that the practice is safe. Presumably, the pilot in
question doesn't have a current medical because he lost it for some
important medical reason. You cannot declare his actions safe w/o
knowing what that reason was. Remember, we self-certify that we are
fit to fly gliders. As I am sure you are aware, we do not have cart
blanche to fly with a disabling medical condition.

And, yes, I don't know why the guy lost his medical either.

Tom

Tom Seim wrote:

I will remind you that the original post was whether it was legal to
fly said glider WITHOUT A CURRENT MEDICAL! The answer to this question
must be an unequivocal NO!

Aggghhh. This one comes down again to if one
thinks a motorglider is a powered aircraft.
This subject is too fuzzy for me to agree or
disagree. I'd tell you that
a) I have a medical so I don't personally care so much
b) if I didn't have a medical I might interpret
the rule to mean I can't fly in clouds with the engine on,
(but I can fly in them with it removed or stowed)
which is silly.
c) if I had a medical revoked or failed, I'd
likely not be safe to fly anything at all...

So really I guess the pilot wants to know if
he can fly a motorglider in the clouds with the motor
running with an expired medical but no
known adverse medical problems.

That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

AC 21 17-2(a) states:
h. Section 91.205 of the FAR. Powered gliders are considered to be powered
aircraft for the purpose of complying with § 91.205.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40edcd7c$1@darkstar...


That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...e_Library%5Crg
AdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/EAE91A15C5E11823862569B600563FBF?OpenDocument

You gotta paste together the link, sorry ;(

In article ,
ADP wrote:
AC 21 17-2(a) states:
h. Section 91.205 of the FAR. Powered gliders are considered to be powered
aircraft for the purpose of complying with § 91.205.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40edcd7c$1@darkstar...


That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA




--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA