Postponed 3 students due to TSA

CV wrote in message ...
Nyal Williams wrote:

Hair splitting is entirely in order. You are right
that fascism is a necessary part of communism, but
you can certainly have fascism without communism.

Certainly, and I never claimed otherwise.

You are getting it right now out of TSA.

The bureaucratic aspects of this TSA lark strike me as
a common trait with some of the former (fortunately)
communist systems, hence that comparison is valid
too, as well as the fascist one.
CV

The communism as practiced by Russia until ~1990 and China is very
different from the theoretical concepts originally proposed by Lenin
etc. Kibbutzez in Israel are far closer to the original communist
proposal, yet have no fascist overtones. Ideal communism is everybody
working together for the good of the community. I think that the Amish
practice a form of communism in the way that they work together. I
don't think that the Amish can be called fascists

It is very funny that the Germans of the 1920's and 30's so feared
communism that they went with the fascism of the Nazis - and how that
changed world history.

Apartheid South Africa had many of the trappings of fascism
(especially if you happened to be non-white) but was totally opposed
to communism. The current government is far more lenient towards
communism - the South African Communist Party is an active part of the
government - yet is not fascist at all. There is no merit in saying
that fascism is a necessary part of communism and vice-versa - they
are very different models.

I fear that if the current fears of terrorism in America are allowed
to escalate - a repeat of Apartheid South Africa is a final
possibility, with all its restrictions and removals of personal
freedom for certain classes of people - e.g. Muslims and foreigners.
White South Africans were convinced to allow apartheid based on the
government convincing the people of the dangers of communism. (Die
Rooi Gevaar - the Red Danger).

How does all this affect Soaring? Visit South Africa where the skies
are open, the people friendly, the beer cheap and the soaring
fantastic.

Clinton Birch
LAK 12

Clint wrote:
The communism as practiced by Russia until ~1990 and China is very
different from the theoretical concepts originally proposed by Lenin

Actual practice often turns out very different from theoretical
concepts.

etc. Kibbutzez in Israel are far closer to the original communist
proposal, yet have no fascist overtones. Ideal communism is everybody
working together for the good of the community. I think that the Amish
practice a form of communism in the way that they work together. I
don't think that the Amish can be called fascists

It is very funny that the Germans of the 1920's and 30's so feared
communism that they went with the fascism of the Nazis - and how that
changed world history.

Apartheid South Africa had many of the trappings of fascism
(especially if you happened to be non-white) but was totally opposed
to communism. The current government is far more lenient towards
communism - the South African Communist Party is an active part of the
government - yet is not fascist at all. There is no merit in saying
that fascism is a necessary part of communism and vice-versa - they
are very different models.

Noone has claimed the vice-versa afaik.

But OK then, besides smaller groups like kibbutzes or the Amish you
mention (must confess I have no idea what they are), ant colonies
and the like :0), name a country that has had a communist system
for any amount of time without fascist-style repression and
persecution to keep their citizenry in line.

CV

CV wrote in message ...

But OK then, besides smaller groups like kibbutzes or the Amish you
mention (must confess I have no idea what they are), ant colonies
and the like :0),

The Amish are a religious group, pretty much rejecting modern
conveniences, and more or less being what most people would like to
say they are, a community. They are also one of the last places on
earth where you can go and buy furniture that is made tastefully, and
with quality materials, knowing that the hand fit joints aren't going
to loosen up in a year. (And contrary to Tadysch adds, if you want
the good stuff, you'll go to the craftsman himself, not an outlet that
sells mass produced "almost good" furniture.) At the first glance,
they appear to be a gentle people, but many of their ways are hard and
cold, and you won't ever come out on top dealing with them, even
maybe, but they're not fools in their business affairs. What stands
them apart from most places, they really do care about their
communities and their people. Not just lip service like every other
"community."

CV wrote in message ...
Clint wrote:
The communism as practiced by Russia until ~1990 and China is very
different from the theoretical concepts originally proposed by Lenin

Actual practice often turns out very different from theoretical
concepts.

etc. Kibbutzez in Israel are far closer to the original communist
proposal, yet have no fascist overtones. Ideal communism is everybody
working together for the good of the community. I think that the Amish
practice a form of communism in the way that they work together. I
don't think that the Amish can be called fascists

It is very funny that the Germans of the 1920's and 30's so feared
communism that they went with the fascism of the Nazis - and how that
changed world history.

Apartheid South Africa had many of the trappings of fascism
(especially if you happened to be non-white) but was totally opposed
to communism. The current government is far more lenient towards
communism - the South African Communist Party is an active part of the
government - yet is not fascist at all. There is no merit in saying
that fascism is a necessary part of communism and vice-versa - they
are very different models.

Noone has claimed the vice-versa afaik.

But OK then, besides smaller groups like kibbutzes or the Amish you
mention (must confess I have no idea what they are), ant colonies
and the like :0), name a country that has had a communist system
for any amount of time without fascist-style repression and
persecution to keep their citizenry in line.

CV


The Amish are a religious group who live in settlements in 22 states
and Ontario, Canada. The oldest group of Old Order Amish, about
16-18,000 people live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. The Amish
stress humility, family and community, and separation from the world.

A communist system based on the fear of God - rather than the fear of
military rule :-)

15000 ft cloudbase - 4m/s thermals. Got to love Africa.

Clinton Birch
Lak 12