Slip to landing on PPG practical test

At 13:00 31 October 2004, an aspiring private pilot
outlined the like-a-lawn-dart method of using slips
to a landing, and asked:

1. Is this the common interpretation of the task...
No drag devices,
all
the way to the ground?

Nope. (This from a DE who's administered over 350 private,
commercial & CFI-G flight tests in 25 years.) I don't
ask any applicant to perform any maneuver I haven't
done recently in the same model aircraft, in the same
conditions and preferably at the same airport used
for the flight test. On a light- or no-wind day, I
doubt I could land most gliders as you describe without
having set up a ridiculously low final approach in
the first place. (Geez, Louise, I'd flunk myself for
that!)

2. Have you experienced/how would you deal with what
seems to be a rather
low drag ratio even with a full-rudder slip?

If you mean slipping like crazy on final with minimal
effect on the glideslope, Yup. And in my case, I quickly
discovered the joys of situational awareness, well-timed
S-turns and strict attention to speed control. (eg:
get past 'Uh-Oh!' and get on with solving the problem.)
The first three rules of flying are and will ever be'
Fly the aircraft! Fly the aircraft! and Fly the aircraft!
(With the implied assumption that you know what's possible/safe
FOR the aircraft in question IN the extant situation.)


Ask your CFI to have a heart-to-heart with the DE.
If he/she is 'hard over' on slipping all the way to
the ground irrespective of aircraft and airport concerns,
find another DE.

Judy

I took my practical flight test in an L-13 Blanik and was required to land
without the use of spoilers.

When I checked the spoilers on the down wind, the examiner informed me that
they were frozen shut. He also picked a spot on the field where he wanted
me to land. I started my slip prior to turning base and continued it on
final making adjustments as necessary to land on the designated spot.

Driggs, Idaho was the location of the examination. The field is a 6,200
feet MSL and is 7,300 feet long. Safety wasn't a concern. The landing spot
picked by the examiner was 1,000 feet from the approach end. I didn't find
it too stressful; however, I am sure the stress level would have been much
greater on a short runway.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

"Judy Ruprecht" wrote in message
...
At 13:00 31 October 2004, an aspiring private pilot
outlined the like-a-lawn-dart method of using slips
to a landing, and asked:

1. Is this the common interpretation of the task...
No drag devices,
all
the way to the ground?

Nope. (This from a DE who's administered over 350 private,
commercial & CFI-G flight tests in 25 years.) I don't
ask any applicant to perform any maneuver I haven't
done recently in the same model aircraft, in the same
conditions and preferably at the same airport used
for the flight test. On a light- or no-wind day, I
doubt I could land most gliders as you describe without
having set up a ridiculously low final approach in
the first place. (Geez, Louise, I'd flunk myself for
that!)

2. Have you experienced/how would you deal with what
seems to be a rather
low drag ratio even with a full-rudder slip?

If you mean slipping like crazy on final with minimal
effect on the glideslope, Yup. And in my case, I quickly
discovered the joys of situational awareness, well-timed
S-turns and strict attention to speed control. (eg:
get past 'Uh-Oh!' and get on with solving the problem.)
The first three rules of flying are and will ever be'
Fly the aircraft! Fly the aircraft! and Fly the aircraft!
(With the implied assumption that you know what's possible/safe
FOR the aircraft in question IN the extant situation.)


Ask your CFI to have a heart-to-heart with the DE.
If he/she is 'hard over' on slipping all the way to
the ground irrespective of aircraft and airport concerns,
find another DE.

Judy

I also live in Idaho and had a different examiner than Wayne. I did
my commercial and CFIG check at the Nampa, ID airport, 2,500 asl and
about 4,700' long runway at that time. I did it in a Blanik L13 too.
I had been forewarned and had practiced this with my instructor and
other mentor pilots even before seeing it in the PPG. I was told to
get it stopped in the first third of the runway. I started it on
downwind and was only a few feet above the ground when I crossed the
beginning of the runway. I did not find it too difficult and in fact
the vis. from the back seat was better in a slip. The big head of the
examiner was out of the way.
Tom
Idaho



"Wayne Paul" wrote in message ...
I took my practical flight test in an L-13 Blanik and was required to land
without the use of spoilers.

When I checked the spoilers on the down wind, the examiner informed me that
they were frozen shut. He also picked a spot on the field where he wanted
me to land. I started my slip prior to turning base and continued it on
final making adjustments as necessary to land on the designated spot.

Driggs, Idaho was the location of the examination. The field is a 6,200
feet MSL and is 7,300 feet long. Safety wasn't a concern. The landing spot
picked by the examiner was 1,000 feet from the approach end. I didn't find
it too stressful; however, I am sure the stress level would have been much
greater on a short runway.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

"

Judy Ruprecht wrote in message Ask your CFI to have a heart-to-heart with the DE.
If he/she is 'hard over' on slipping all the way to
the ground irrespective of aircraft and airport concerns,
find another DE.

Judy
====================================
I agree with Judy.

Terry Claussen
DPEG AZ

How about reporting this DPE to the FSDO? There is little quality control
on the DPEs if pilots do not report problems. Just because they do well on
their DPE checkrides with the FAA does not make them a good DPE!

"Terry Claussen" wrote in message
om...
Judy Ruprecht wrote in message Ask your CFI to
have a heart-to-heart with the DE.
If he/she is 'hard over' on slipping all the way to
the ground irrespective of aircraft and airport concerns,
find another DE.

Judy
====================================
I agree with Judy.

Terry Claussen
DPEG AZ

I'd only "report" him/her if this request persists to the bitter end.
Perhaps it would be good to take some of these posts and share them with
the DE before your meeting and suggest that while it's part of the PTS,
you have concerns about the safety of such a maneuver. Outright
reporting and subsequently ticking him/her off might be a poor move.
Additionally you can suggest that a no spoiler approach is essentially a
maneuver that is only required if you have an in-flight spoiler failure
and that the pre-flight and "positive" checks should find a control hook
up issue. Furthermore, it's an extremely rare failure.

I've only seen this maneuver attempted once and the CFIG who attempted
to do it flew an L-23 the length of a 5000' runway before going for the
brakes and then moderately ground looping at the end of the roll to
avoid the ditch at the end of the property. Previously he'd instructed
in 2-33s. I would not chose to do it myself.

Paul Lynch wrote:
How about reporting this DPE to the FSDO? There is little quality control
on the DPEs if pilots do not report problems. Just because they do well on
their DPE checkrides with the FAA does not make them a good DPE!

"Terry Claussen" wrote in message
om...

Judy Ruprecht wrote in message Ask your CFI to
have a heart-to-heart with the DE.

If he/she is 'hard over' on slipping all the way to
the ground irrespective of aircraft and airport concerns,
find another DE.

Judy

====================================
I agree with Judy.

Terry Claussen
DPEG AZ

Thanks to all who replied and especially for the link to the designee
bulletin clarifying the intent of the task. I'll be talking with the
examiner soon.