US Dollar sinks to new low against Euro

(Bob Kuykendall) wrote in message . com...
Earlier, Eric Greenwell wrote:

The one somewhat-troubling exception that occurs to me is full-on,
no-holds-barred competition. I believe that where the stakes are high,
there can be competitive advantage in a light, very small glider of
15m or slightly less. What we're talking about is a glider for a 5'2"
pilot of about 108 lbs who doesn't mind launching at 11 lbs/ft^2 in a
machine that provides about as much crash protection as a motorcycle
racing suit.


George Moffat was way ahead of you; he brings up this exact subject in
"Winning on the Wind"! His instant solution? Woman contest pilots!

He also had an interesting discussion about the potential of a 13
meter racing class, but unlike the current emphasis on handicapping,
he wanted a really strict one-class ship (much like the theory behind
the PW-5). This came from his experience in sailboat racing.

I think all this discussion about exporting Sparrowhawks to Europe
misses a huge point - European (and probably the rest of the non-US
gliding community) has a strong XC and racing bias. So a glider that
doesn't fit into an existing racing category, or has less XC
capability, will be a tough sell. Club class perhaps, but then you
are competing against much less expensive used ships.

The US on the other hand, seems (IMHO) to have a substantial anti-XC /
racing majority - which would explain the "success" (?) of the
Sparrowhawk and PW-5 over here.

Finally - To me the argument is backwards: I don't want a 13 meter
ship that has the performance of an LS4, I want an LS4 (size, comfort,
handling, cost) that has the performance of an LS6!

Kirk
Ex-partner in an LS4, currently flying an LS6 (and missing the -4s
huge cockpit and wonderful ailerons)

Kirk Stant wrote:


The US on the other hand, seems (IMHO) to have a substantial anti-XC /
racing majority - which would explain the "success" (?) of the
Sparrowhawk and PW-5 over here.

(Sound of loud buzzer for wrong answer) The people buying and flying the
SparrowHawk are most definitely cross-country pilots! You don't buy a
glider like that to float around the airport. It'd be a heck of fun ship
for that purpose, but the people that want to do that seem to buy
cheaper gliders or use the club ships.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Kirk Stant wrote:


The US on the other hand, seems (IMHO) to have a substantial anti-XC /
racing majority - which would explain the "success" (?) of the
Sparrowhawk and PW-5 over here.

(Sound of loud buzzer for wrong answer) The people buying and flying the
SparrowHawk are most definitely cross-country pilots! You don't buy a
glider like that to float around the airport. It'd be a heck of fun ship
for that purpose, but the people that want to do that seem to buy
cheaper gliders or use the club ships.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

I still don't think the question of repairability has been adequately
addressed by the producer. If you ding a wing, a factory repair may be
required. Same as the Diana 2.

This may ultimately impact your insure charges. If I were your underwriter,
I'd certainly be looking at this. This, of course, is strictly conjecture
based on what I know of pre-preg composite construction and what was stated
by the Diana 2 design team at Atlanta.

Frank Whtieley

F.L. Whiteley wrote:


I still don't think the question of repairability has been adequately
addressed by the producer. If you ding a wing, a factory repair may be
required. Same as the Diana 2.

This may ultimately impact your insure charges. If I were your underwriter,
I'd certainly be looking at this. This, of course, is strictly conjecture
based on what I know of pre-preg composite construction and what was stated
by the Diana 2 design team at Atlanta.

Anyone with a serious interest in the SparrowHawk doesn't have to rely
on conjecture, but can discuss things like this directly with the
designer, Greg Cole. I don't own one, and I don't have the answers.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...
Kirk Stant wrote:


The US on the other hand, seems (IMHO) to have a substantial anti-XC /
racing majority - which would explain the "success" (?) of the
Sparrowhawk and PW-5 over here.

(Sound of loud buzzer for wrong answer) The people buying and flying the
SparrowHawk are most definitely cross-country pilots! You don't buy a
glider like that to float around the airport. It'd be a heck of fun ship
for that purpose, but the people that want to do that seem to buy
cheaper gliders or use the club ships.

Sorry, Eric, I disagree. The US soaring scene is unfortunately biased
by the prevalence of commerial operations - "show up, fly a 1-26 for
an hour, then go home and pull out the honey-do list".

XC is the most fun (to me and my friends, at least), when done in
company with friends, in similar performing ships. With most of the
established 15m and Standard ships, that works well. Somehow, I don't
see a Sparrowhawk keeping up with a V2, ASW-27, or LS8. And if you go
for the Sparrowhawk option, you are opting out of most racing -
unless you go for sports class.

I've seen several people out here buy PW-5s (all enthusiastic), do a
little XC, then give it up and sell them because everybody else leaves
them behind.

I see the Sparrowhawk as a typical US "we do it different here"
approach. I'm sure it's a nice little glider, but not sure where it
fits in the big picture. I know I have no desire to trade my ship for
it - it's easy to get addicted to high performance!

Kirk

Kirk Stant wrote:

The US on the other hand, seems (IMHO) to have a substantial anti-XC /
racing majority - which would explain the "success" (?) of the
Sparrowhawk and PW-5 over here.

(Sound of loud buzzer for wrong answer) The people buying and flying the
SparrowHawk are most definitely cross-country pilots! You don't buy a
glider like that to float around the airport. It'd be a heck of fun ship
for that purpose, but the people that want to do that seem to buy
cheaper gliders or use the club ships.


Sorry, Eric, I disagree. The US soaring scene is unfortunately biased
by the prevalence of commerial operations - "show up, fly a 1-26 for
an hour, then go home and pull out the honey-do list".

This might be true, but is irrelevant when discussing SparrowHawk owners.

XC is the most fun (to me and my friends, at least), when done in
company with friends, in similar performing ships. With most of the
established 15m and Standard ships, that works well. Somehow, I don't
see a Sparrowhawk keeping up with a V2, ASW-27, or LS8. And if you go
for the Sparrowhawk option, you are opting out of most racing -
unless you go for sports class.

I made no mention of racing or keeping up with an LS8. I was indicating
the people buying the SparrowHawk are very much interested in
cross-country flying. I don't think they are "anti-racing", just not
especially interested in it. Racing and keeping up with an LS8 are YOUR
priorities, not theirs.

I've seen several people out here buy PW-5s (all enthusiastic), do a
little XC, then give it up and sell them because everybody else leaves
them behind.

And I've seen people get that high performance ship, scare themselves
with a high speed landing in a field, and go back to floating around the
airport in it. The glider and the pilot need to be matched to the
situation; it's not one size fits all, for sure.


I see the Sparrowhawk as a typical US "we do it different here"
approach.

Are you saying more choices are problem? I don't think so. We already
have a lot of companies "doing it the same". The people I've seen buying
the SparrowHawk are not dewy-eyed newcomers to soaring, but serious
pilots looking for something different.

I'm sure it's a nice little glider, but not sure where it
fits in the big picture.

You have a lot company, as there are lots of pilots can't see past their
habits and preferences to that big picture.

I know I have no desire to trade my ship for
it - it's easy to get addicted to high performance!

And I wouldn't have your glider - no motor - it's easy to get addicted
to flying when you want to, where you want to, the whole convenience and
independence bit! I can see why you like it, however.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...

This might be true, but is irrelevant when discussing SparrowHawk owners.


Tangential, perhaps, but not irrelevant in the overall picture?


I made no mention of racing or keeping up with an LS8. I was indicating
the people buying the SparrowHawk are very much interested in
cross-country flying. I don't think they are "anti-racing", just not
especially interested in it. Racing and keeping up with an LS8 are YOUR
priorities, not theirs.

True. But based on what I have seen out here, unless you have a group
flying similar performance gliders, you will lose some (a lot?) of the
"individualist" beginning XC pilots. If you are lucky enough to have
a critical mass of Sparrowawk (or similar) ships, then those lucky
pilots will have a lot of fun, no doubt about it.


And I've seen people get that high performance ship, scare themselves
with a high speed landing in a field, and go back to floating around the
airport in it. The glider and the pilot need to be matched to the
situation; it's not one size fits all, for sure.


I've seen that here several times - with such docile ships as ASW-19s!
I suspect the problem is training - the curse of the 2-33 strikes
again! Anyone who says a modern Std ship (which includes the LS4) is
any harder to fly than a 1-26 is delusional and/or poorly trained.
But it is true that all some people want (or can handle )is a simple
floater to putt around the glider port.


Are you saying more choices are problem? I don't think so. We already
have a lot of companies "doing it the same". The people I've seen buying
the SparrowHawk are not dewy-eyed newcomers to soaring, but serious
pilots looking for something different.

No, more choices are fine if the market can support it. I'm not sure
the Sparrowhawh adds much new to the equation, however - it has a high
enough wingloading that it is more of a "small, light, regular glider"
than a different approach to soaring. I would like to see something
along the lines of the Carbon Dragon that could really use microlift -
that would fill a hole in the current range of gliders, IMHO.


You have a lot company, as there are lots of pilots can't see past their
habits and preferences to that big picture.

True, but that knife cuts both ways - there are a lot of "advocates"
of specific ships/classes/types of flying that think that there way is
the only way.


And I wouldn't have your glider - no motor - it's easy to get addicted
to flying when you want to, where you want to, the whole convenience and
independence bit! I can see why you like it, however.

I would love to have a self-launch, as long as I didn't give up any
performance - when I win the lottery I'm buying an Antares! But it
would be in addition to my pure glider - I love the whole routine of
soaring - arriving early, rigging, waiting for the best time to
launch, the tow (or winch launch), getting home or landing out (and
the adventure that ensues), then putting everything away in the
evening. Self launch seems to me to trade convenience for solitude -
I like the company of other gliders! Again, thats a typical US
"lonesome cowboy" attitude (and there is nothing wrong with that!) -
unlike the european social approach to soaring. I've done it both
ways, and much prefer doing it with friends!

Kirk

Kirk Stant wrote:


True. But based on what I have seen out here, unless you have a group
flying similar performance gliders, you will lose some (a lot?) of the
"individualist" beginning XC pilots. If you are lucky enough to have
a critical mass of Sparrowawk (or similar) ships, then those lucky
pilots will have a lot of fun, no doubt about it.

It depends on the person and culture of organization, I think. Thirty
years ago, I learned in and flew with a club where even pilots of
similar skill and gliders did not fly "together" (meaning in sight of
each other, or within a mile or two), but with radio contact as they
scattered in different directions to explore on their own.

We still fly this way: individuals doing their own thing in the company
of friends. This kind of social flying doesn't require the pilots have
the same abilities or similar gliders, so the pilot in the Ka-6
participates just as well as the pilot in 18 meter motorglider.

And I've seen people get that high performance ship, scare themselves
with a high speed landing in a field, and go back to floating around the
airport in it. The glider and the pilot need to be matched to the
situation; it's not one size fits all, for sure.

I've seen that here several times - with such docile ships as ASW-19s!
I suspect the problem is training - the curse of the 2-33 strikes
again! Anyone who says a modern Std ship (which includes the LS4) is
any harder to fly than a 1-26 is delusional and/or poorly trained.

The LS4 isn't harder to fly, I'm sure, but a landing it in a farmer's
field is more difficult and intimidating the new pilot. The larger size
and especially the higher landing speed are the cause. Every time I've
landed our club's Blanik, I would think "this is SO easy compared to a
glass ship!". And that's from a pilot with 2000+ hours in glass ships.

snip

You have a lot company, as there are lots of pilots can't see past their
habits and preferences to that big picture.


True, but that knife cuts both ways - there are a lot of "advocates"
of specific ships/classes/types of flying that think that there way is
the only way.

These pilots are included in my "lots of pilots can't see past their
habits and preferences to that big picture" remark.

snip

Self launch seems to me to trade convenience for solitude -


It's not a trade - options are increased, none are removed. Fly from the
glider port at the same time as your friends, fly from airports where
the soaring is great but there are no tows, fly with other motorglider
pilots: it's the pilot's choice if he flies alone.

I like the company of other gliders!

So do I, and as do most of the motorglider pilots I know. I know one
that gives tows mid-week when there aren't any other towpilots, then
self-launches when the tow line is empty!

Again, thats a typical US
"lonesome cowboy" attitude (and there is nothing wrong with that!) -
unlike the european social approach to soaring.

With over half the German manufacturers' production being motorgliders,
the Europeans must be buying a lot of them!

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA