US Dollar sinks to new low against Euro

It seems to me that as long as there is such a disparity amongst the ranks
of sailplane enthusiasts financially, we'll never really be able to reach
any meaningful solution...I for one wouldn't consider a sailplane that
didn't have the ability to self launch and then turn into a pretty high
performance soaring machine, simply because it suits my goals...There's lots
of 1-26's and many other veritable gliders in the under 10k price range that
there should always be a home for...If it seems one thing is missing, it
seems like that is a self launched kit sailplane, for the enthusiast who
truly wants to be free of the encumbrance of waiting in line for tows...and
all the associated headaches of retrieves...it would seem to me that the
HP-24 project could place itself into being one of a kind in that regard,
instead of simply another nice sailplane...for the money the LAK-12 and
numerous other longer winged mounts seem to be plentiful and I agree with
Bob Kuykendal about L/D claims being largely over-rated...

the one thing I notice more and more, is that self launchers are turning up
on the State records and badge flights more and more...and I think it will
continue...I don't think the overall performance is near as much an issue,
as the convenience and ability to go...when the weather is good...I started
in hang gliders and have owned wood, aluminum and glass...I don't want to go
back in performance any more than anyone...a less expensive self launcher
would seem to me to be much more meaningful for growing our sport...than
just another sailplane to add to the long and confusing list that is already
out there...



Steve.

Steve Hill wrote:

the one thing I notice more and more, is that self launchers are turning up
on the State records and badge flights more and more...and I think it will
continue...I don't think the overall performance is near as much an issue,
as the convenience and ability to go...when the weather is good...I started
in hang gliders and have owned wood, aluminum and glass...I don't want to go
back in performance any more than anyone...a less expensive self launcher
would seem to me to be much more meaningful for growing our sport...than
just another sailplane to add to the long and confusing list that is already
out there...

I agree with Steve. As an example, the Russia AC-5 sold very well
because it had a good price and decent performance. It has about 70% of
the L/D of ASH 26 E, but was about 40% of the price, and 30+ pilots
found that very attractive. Unfortunately, it's not available new now,
and the manufacturer's intentions aren't known.

L/D is somewhat overrated as Bob K and others point out, especially for
a motorglider. A Russia pilot might have to use his engine more often
than I do in my ASH 26, but what's an extra 10-15 minutes of engine, 5
or 6 times a year? Nothing really, but it sure can expand your soaring
options.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

I agree with Steve. As an example, the Russia AC-5 sold very well because
it had a good price and decent performance. It has about 70% of the L/D of
ASH 26 E, but was about 40% of the price, and 30+ pilots found that very
attractive. Unfortunately, it's not available new now, and the
manufacturer's intentions aren't known.

L/D is somewhat overrated as Bob K and others point out, especially for a
motorglider. A Russia pilot might have to use his engine more often than I
do in my ASH 26, but what's an extra 10-15 minutes of engine, 5 or 6 times
a year? Nothing really, but it sure can expand your soaring options.


I can attest to Eric's statement about the ability of the Russia 5M to
expand your soaring options. While it seems to me the LS-4 is a great
glider, I bought a 5M this last spring for roughly the amount of money that
would get me an LS-4. However, the 5M allowed me to fly twice the hours of
my previous high hour season because I could fly from an airport 10 minutes
from my house as opposed to 2 or 2.5 hours from home. For me, the increased
number of hours greatly makes up for the relatively small performance
reduction because I feel I am making more rapid progression in my quest to
be a soaring pilot.

Tim

.....I bought a 5M this last spring for roughly the amount of money that
would get me an LS-4. However, the 5M allowed me to fly twice the hours of
my previous high hour season because I could fly from an airport 10 minutes
from my house as opposed to 2 or 2.5 hours from home. For me, the increased
number of hours greatly makes up for the relatively small performance
reduction because I feel I am making more rapid progression in my quest to
be a soaring pilot.


What's missing here is the camaraderie and sharing your passion with
like-minded individuals at the gliderport. This is important for some,
and less so for others. I admit that I would find a 2.5 hour drive "a
haul".

Tony V. "6N"

..If it seems one thing is missing, it
seems like that is a self launched kit sailplane, for the enthusiast who
truly wants to be free of the encumbrance of waiting in line for tows...and
all the associated headaches of retrieves.

It is not missing it already exists, the Apis M is a selflaunch 15meter span
glider available in kit form. It uses modern design concepts and materials. The
39hp. engine assures good climb rates even at high density altitudes.

Visit the web site for more information. www.apisgliders.com

In all fairness I must mention that the Silent selflaunch is also available in
kit form but is 13meters in span.

Robert Mudd
Apis Sailplanes Inc.

On 13 Nov 2004 01:51:12 GMT, ojunk (Robertmudd1u)
wrote:

It is not missing it already exists, the Apis M is a selflaunch 15meter span
glider available in kit form. It uses modern design concepts and materials. The
39hp. engine assures good climb rates even at high density altitudes.

Unfortunately that Apis is anything but cheap...

Visit the web site for more information. www.apisgliders.com

In all fairness I must mention that the Silent selflaunch is also available in
kit form but is 13meters in span.

..... and it's electric!
This is what I regard as the future of gliding.


Bye
Andreas

Unfortunately that Apis is anything but cheap...

Andreas,

"Cheap" is a relative term. the Apis M is less than half the price of a DG 800
or ASW-26. If you have a partner it is even better.

In a "cheap" motorglider you will mostly likely get what you pay for.

Robert Mudd

On 14 Nov 2004 00:24:35 GMT, ojunk (Robertmudd1u)
wrote:


"Cheap" is a relative term. the Apis M is less than half the price of a DG 800
or ASW-26. If you have a partner it is even better.

You are completely correect here - here in Germany a partnership is
the preferred way to own a glider.

But reading RAS I got the impression that partnerships are not common
in the US (hence the interest of many US pilots in cheap - or shall I
say low-budget? - gliders). Is my impression correct?



Bye
Andreas

But reading RAS I got the impression that partnerships are not common
in the US (hence the interest of many US pilots in cheap - or shall I
say low-budget? - gliders). Is my impression correct?
Bye
Andreas

Andreas,
From my experience it think that is correct. Many is the time I have talked
with pilots who wants to own a glider but can't afford it. I mention a
partnership and they say " Oh I could never be in a partnership"

I am always tempted to ask then just what personality defect they have that
will not allow them to get along with someone else and share the fun and cost
of a flying machine.

Well thought out partnerships are a great way to lower your flying costs and
have a glider of your choice to fly.

Robert Mudd

Andreas,

Partnerships are still common, although less so for the competitive
crowd. I believe the majority of gliders at my home airport are owned
in partnership but relatively few of them are campaigned regularly in
contests.

I do agree, however, that most U.S. pilots would rather own a glider
alone. Many of them probably dismiss the alternative of acquiring a
newer, better-equipped, and/or higher-performance glider by partnering
with another pilot or pilots.

Back in 1996, I posted on RAS about this:

"Affordable gliders" --
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pa... l.com&rnum=1

[if this link doesn't work, try doing an advanced search in
groups.google.com with "partnership," JNBearden, and 1996 as the
parameters]

I won't repeat the same stuff here except to say that partnerships,
like marriage, can be difficult and demanding but also very rewarding.
If money is what is holding someone back from acquiring the sailplane
of his or her dreams, winning the lottery or robbing a bank need not
be the only ways to realize that goal.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

But reading RAS I got the impression that partnerships are not common
in the US (hence the interest of many US pilots in cheap - or shall I
say low-budget? - gliders). Is my impression correct?



Bye
Andreas