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#1
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It seems to me that as long as there is such a disparity amongst the ranks
of sailplane enthusiasts financially, we'll never really be able to reach any meaningful solution...I for one wouldn't consider a sailplane that didn't have the ability to self launch and then turn into a pretty high performance soaring machine, simply because it suits my goals...There's lots of 1-26's and many other veritable gliders in the under 10k price range that there should always be a home for...If it seems one thing is missing, it seems like that is a self launched kit sailplane, for the enthusiast who truly wants to be free of the encumbrance of waiting in line for tows...and all the associated headaches of retrieves...it would seem to me that the HP-24 project could place itself into being one of a kind in that regard, instead of simply another nice sailplane...for the money the LAK-12 and numerous other longer winged mounts seem to be plentiful and I agree with Bob Kuykendal about L/D claims being largely over-rated... the one thing I notice more and more, is that self launchers are turning up on the State records and badge flights more and more...and I think it will continue...I don't think the overall performance is near as much an issue, as the convenience and ability to go...when the weather is good...I started in hang gliders and have owned wood, aluminum and glass...I don't want to go back in performance any more than anyone...a less expensive self launcher would seem to me to be much more meaningful for growing our sport...than just another sailplane to add to the long and confusing list that is already out there... Steve. |
#2
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Steve Hill wrote:
the one thing I notice more and more, is that self launchers are turning up on the State records and badge flights more and more...and I think it will continue...I don't think the overall performance is near as much an issue, as the convenience and ability to go...when the weather is good...I started in hang gliders and have owned wood, aluminum and glass...I don't want to go back in performance any more than anyone...a less expensive self launcher would seem to me to be much more meaningful for growing our sport...than just another sailplane to add to the long and confusing list that is already out there... I agree with Steve. As an example, the Russia AC-5 sold very well because it had a good price and decent performance. It has about 70% of the L/D of ASH 26 E, but was about 40% of the price, and 30+ pilots found that very attractive. Unfortunately, it's not available new now, and the manufacturer's intentions aren't known. L/D is somewhat overrated as Bob K and others point out, especially for a motorglider. A Russia pilot might have to use his engine more often than I do in my ASH 26, but what's an extra 10-15 minutes of engine, 5 or 6 times a year? Nothing really, but it sure can expand your soaring options. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#3
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I agree with Steve. As an example, the Russia AC-5 sold very well because
it had a good price and decent performance. It has about 70% of the L/D of ASH 26 E, but was about 40% of the price, and 30+ pilots found that very attractive. Unfortunately, it's not available new now, and the manufacturer's intentions aren't known. L/D is somewhat overrated as Bob K and others point out, especially for a motorglider. A Russia pilot might have to use his engine more often than I do in my ASH 26, but what's an extra 10-15 minutes of engine, 5 or 6 times a year? Nothing really, but it sure can expand your soaring options. I can attest to Eric's statement about the ability of the Russia 5M to expand your soaring options. While it seems to me the LS-4 is a great glider, I bought a 5M this last spring for roughly the amount of money that would get me an LS-4. However, the 5M allowed me to fly twice the hours of my previous high hour season because I could fly from an airport 10 minutes from my house as opposed to 2 or 2.5 hours from home. For me, the increased number of hours greatly makes up for the relatively small performance reduction because I feel I am making more rapid progression in my quest to be a soaring pilot. Tim |
#4
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![]() .....I bought a 5M this last spring for roughly the amount of money that would get me an LS-4. However, the 5M allowed me to fly twice the hours of my previous high hour season because I could fly from an airport 10 minutes from my house as opposed to 2 or 2.5 hours from home. For me, the increased number of hours greatly makes up for the relatively small performance reduction because I feel I am making more rapid progression in my quest to be a soaring pilot. What's missing here is the camaraderie and sharing your passion with like-minded individuals at the gliderport. This is important for some, and less so for others. I admit that I would find a 2.5 hour drive "a haul". Tony V. "6N" |
#5
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..If it seems one thing is missing, it
seems like that is a self launched kit sailplane, for the enthusiast who truly wants to be free of the encumbrance of waiting in line for tows...and all the associated headaches of retrieves. It is not missing it already exists, the Apis M is a selflaunch 15meter span glider available in kit form. It uses modern design concepts and materials. The 39hp. engine assures good climb rates even at high density altitudes. Visit the web site for more information. www.apisgliders.com In all fairness I must mention that the Silent selflaunch is also available in kit form but is 13meters in span. Robert Mudd Apis Sailplanes Inc. |
#7
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Unfortunately that Apis is anything but cheap...
![]() Andreas, "Cheap" is a relative term. the Apis M is less than half the price of a DG 800 or ASW-26. If you have a partner it is even better. In a "cheap" motorglider you will mostly likely get what you pay for. Robert Mudd |
#8
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#9
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But reading RAS I got the impression that partnerships are not common
in the US (hence the interest of many US pilots in cheap - or shall I say low-budget? - gliders). Is my impression correct? Bye Andreas Andreas, From my experience it think that is correct. Many is the time I have talked with pilots who wants to own a glider but can't afford it. I mention a partnership and they say " Oh I could never be in a partnership" I am always tempted to ask then just what personality defect they have that will not allow them to get along with someone else and share the fun and cost of a flying machine. Well thought out partnerships are a great way to lower your flying costs and have a glider of your choice to fly. Robert Mudd |
#10
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Andreas,
Partnerships are still common, although less so for the competitive crowd. I believe the majority of gliders at my home airport are owned in partnership but relatively few of them are campaigned regularly in contests. I do agree, however, that most U.S. pilots would rather own a glider alone. Many of them probably dismiss the alternative of acquiring a newer, better-equipped, and/or higher-performance glider by partnering with another pilot or pilots. Back in 1996, I posted on RAS about this: "Affordable gliders" -- http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pa... l.com&rnum=1 [if this link doesn't work, try doing an advanced search in groups.google.com with "partnership," JNBearden, and 1996 as the parameters] I won't repeat the same stuff here except to say that partnerships, like marriage, can be difficult and demanding but also very rewarding. If money is what is holding someone back from acquiring the sailplane of his or her dreams, winning the lottery or robbing a bank need not be the only ways to realize that goal. ![]() Chip Bearden ASW 24 "JB" But reading RAS I got the impression that partnerships are not common in the US (hence the interest of many US pilots in cheap - or shall I say low-budget? - gliders). Is my impression correct? Bye Andreas |
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