US Dollar sinks to new low against Euro

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...

But reading RAS I got the impression that partnerships are not common
in the US (hence the interest of many US pilots in cheap - or shall I
say low-budget? - gliders). Is my impression correct?

A club member put it to me like this recently: "In this part of the
country (Northeast US) there are only a handful of truly great soaring
days per year. When those days arrive, you don't want to be sitting on
the ground while your partner flies".

Tony V.

Flying more on the not so great days might make one the greater pilot;^)

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...

This might be true, but is irrelevant when discussing SparrowHawk owners.


Tangential, perhaps, but not irrelevant in the overall picture?


I made no mention of racing or keeping up with an LS8. I was indicating
the people buying the SparrowHawk are very much interested in
cross-country flying. I don't think they are "anti-racing", just not
especially interested in it. Racing and keeping up with an LS8 are YOUR
priorities, not theirs.

True. But based on what I have seen out here, unless you have a group
flying similar performance gliders, you will lose some (a lot?) of the
"individualist" beginning XC pilots. If you are lucky enough to have
a critical mass of Sparrowawk (or similar) ships, then those lucky
pilots will have a lot of fun, no doubt about it.


And I've seen people get that high performance ship, scare themselves
with a high speed landing in a field, and go back to floating around the
airport in it. The glider and the pilot need to be matched to the
situation; it's not one size fits all, for sure.


I've seen that here several times - with such docile ships as ASW-19s!
I suspect the problem is training - the curse of the 2-33 strikes
again! Anyone who says a modern Std ship (which includes the LS4) is
any harder to fly than a 1-26 is delusional and/or poorly trained.
But it is true that all some people want (or can handle )is a simple
floater to putt around the glider port.


Are you saying more choices are problem? I don't think so. We already
have a lot of companies "doing it the same". The people I've seen buying
the SparrowHawk are not dewy-eyed newcomers to soaring, but serious
pilots looking for something different.

No, more choices are fine if the market can support it. I'm not sure
the Sparrowhawh adds much new to the equation, however - it has a high
enough wingloading that it is more of a "small, light, regular glider"
than a different approach to soaring. I would like to see something
along the lines of the Carbon Dragon that could really use microlift -
that would fill a hole in the current range of gliders, IMHO.


You have a lot company, as there are lots of pilots can't see past their
habits and preferences to that big picture.

True, but that knife cuts both ways - there are a lot of "advocates"
of specific ships/classes/types of flying that think that there way is
the only way.


And I wouldn't have your glider - no motor - it's easy to get addicted
to flying when you want to, where you want to, the whole convenience and
independence bit! I can see why you like it, however.

I would love to have a self-launch, as long as I didn't give up any
performance - when I win the lottery I'm buying an Antares! But it
would be in addition to my pure glider - I love the whole routine of
soaring - arriving early, rigging, waiting for the best time to
launch, the tow (or winch launch), getting home or landing out (and
the adventure that ensues), then putting everything away in the
evening. Self launch seems to me to trade convenience for solitude -
I like the company of other gliders! Again, thats a typical US
"lonesome cowboy" attitude (and there is nothing wrong with that!) -
unlike the european social approach to soaring. I've done it both
ways, and much prefer doing it with friends!

Kirk

Kirk Stant wrote:


True. But based on what I have seen out here, unless you have a group
flying similar performance gliders, you will lose some (a lot?) of the
"individualist" beginning XC pilots. If you are lucky enough to have
a critical mass of Sparrowawk (or similar) ships, then those lucky
pilots will have a lot of fun, no doubt about it.

It depends on the person and culture of organization, I think. Thirty
years ago, I learned in and flew with a club where even pilots of
similar skill and gliders did not fly "together" (meaning in sight of
each other, or within a mile or two), but with radio contact as they
scattered in different directions to explore on their own.

We still fly this way: individuals doing their own thing in the company
of friends. This kind of social flying doesn't require the pilots have
the same abilities or similar gliders, so the pilot in the Ka-6
participates just as well as the pilot in 18 meter motorglider.

And I've seen people get that high performance ship, scare themselves
with a high speed landing in a field, and go back to floating around the
airport in it. The glider and the pilot need to be matched to the
situation; it's not one size fits all, for sure.

I've seen that here several times - with such docile ships as ASW-19s!
I suspect the problem is training - the curse of the 2-33 strikes
again! Anyone who says a modern Std ship (which includes the LS4) is
any harder to fly than a 1-26 is delusional and/or poorly trained.

The LS4 isn't harder to fly, I'm sure, but a landing it in a farmer's
field is more difficult and intimidating the new pilot. The larger size
and especially the higher landing speed are the cause. Every time I've
landed our club's Blanik, I would think "this is SO easy compared to a
glass ship!". And that's from a pilot with 2000+ hours in glass ships.

snip

You have a lot company, as there are lots of pilots can't see past their
habits and preferences to that big picture.


True, but that knife cuts both ways - there are a lot of "advocates"
of specific ships/classes/types of flying that think that there way is
the only way.

These pilots are included in my "lots of pilots can't see past their
habits and preferences to that big picture" remark.

snip

Self launch seems to me to trade convenience for solitude -


It's not a trade - options are increased, none are removed. Fly from the
glider port at the same time as your friends, fly from airports where
the soaring is great but there are no tows, fly with other motorglider
pilots: it's the pilot's choice if he flies alone.

I like the company of other gliders!

So do I, and as do most of the motorglider pilots I know. I know one
that gives tows mid-week when there aren't any other towpilots, then
self-launches when the tow line is empty!

Again, thats a typical US
"lonesome cowboy" attitude (and there is nothing wrong with that!) -
unlike the european social approach to soaring.

With over half the German manufacturers' production being motorgliders,
the Europeans must be buying a lot of them!

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Todd Pattist" wrote in message
...
F.L. Whiteley" wrote:

Flying more on the not so great days might make one the greater pilot;

Struggling around a course in four hours that you can fly in
two hours on a good day is great fun and good for the soul,
as well as a good learning experience that improves your
flying skill.

However, there's also something to be learned on the 2 or 3
good New England days each year that overlap the weekends.
Cruising 10 knots faster than usual when interthermal and
making that perfect pullup transition into the exact core of
a strong thermal are hard to practice on weak days.
Moreover, there's a thrill it's hard to match when you're 50
to 100 miles farther out than you can get on a normal 2-3
knot day where you're limited to the well-traveled terrain.

Either way, there are *still* not enough soarable weekend
days for me to split them in half with a partner. Of
course, if you can find a partner who flies only on
weekdays, I might be amenable :-)
Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
The British have two national ladders. One weekdays, one weekends.
Such partners may certainly exist, but you might not find them around the
launch point at the weekends;^)
If the North Atlantic continues to cool, you may need to relocate to fly at
all in a few years.

Frank

Kirk Wrote:

I would love to have a self-launch, as long as I didn't give up any
performance - when I win the lottery I'm buying an Antares! But it
would be in addition to my pure glider - I love the whole routine of
soaring - arriving early, rigging, waiting for the best time to
launch, the tow (or winch launch), getting home or landing out (and
the adventure that ensues), then putting everything away in the
evening. Self launch seems to me to trade convenience for solitude -
I like the company of other gliders! Again, thats a typical US
"lonesome cowboy" attitude (and there is nothing wrong with that!) -
unlike the european social approach to soaring. I've done it both
ways, and much prefer doing it with friends!

Well Kirk,
sometimes you feel like a nut...sometimes you don't. For me, self
launch has been amazingly good. I have managed to fly on the average of 140
hours a year since starting flying else launchers. This I've managed 168
hours and I'm not done yet. It has provided me the opportunity to fly when
the weather is okay, good or flat out amazing, as well as to try things when
the weather is poor but you are just curios if there's any way you might
actually be able to get somewhere...I do find that the comraderie issue is
different. While everyone else is driving to get somewhere, I am able to
wait and check Dr. Jacks and then actually see if things do what they are
supposed to, before comitting to spend a few hours on a maybe. What I feel
it really does though, is on those nice mid-week days...when you just look
out the window before lunch and you think..."ya know...I should skip out of
here and go fly..." in the winter it's magic, simply because in most cases
there's simply no other option if you are reliant upon a tow plane. I still
love flying with other sailplanes, and I really enjoy being in a position to
help others coming along try to put the nose out there and go
somewhere...wherever you find self launchers, you will always find a willing
sniffer or a guy who'll be willing to go first in most any endeavor.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I am suggesting that if soaring is
to grow again and begin to flourish, I believe it will be in conjunction
with self launching being a substantial role, based in no small part be
simply alleviating hassle on the retrieve side additional to the flexibility
of trying new things without quite the same level of orchestration required
to run a pure soaring operation. My comments were mainly intended to
hopefully stimulate a couple of the guys who are working towards producing
new sailplanes for homebuilders, to consider offering self launchers...

I think perhaps the thing that I see with self launching is basd on my own
experience. I feel that I have been able to accelerate my learning curve, by
using my self launcher to simply gather different experiences and even to
mitigate certain risks and allow myself to move forward to continue learning
and get to where I want to go. There are plenty of people like me, who fly
sailplanes and seldom hang out with clubs. When I had pure sailplanes I had
a towplane as well and one of my buddies would launch me. I know several
people who do just that, there are folks that like to sit and chat and there
are others that like to help, and there are plenty like me...that like to
fly. The mechanism doesn't alter those issues at all in my humble opinion.
I'd guess if/when you get that Antares, you'll find whatever you fly now,
collecting dust. Besides, if you get bored of self launching, you can show
up early...rig...BS...wait in line and take a tow...and be just one of the
guys...


Respectfully,



Steve.

XC is the most fun (to me and my friends, at least),
when done in
company with friends, in similar performing ships.
With most of the
established 15m and Standard ships, that works well.
Somehow, I don't
see a Sparrowhawk keeping up with a V2, ASW-27, or
LS8.

Well I would hope not...who would want to get beat
by something that costs one-third the price


And if you go
for the Sparrowhawk option, you are opting out of most
racing -
unless you go for sports class.

???? Last time I checked...sports class was going
gang-busters. And for that matter, looking at Sports
Class results I sure see a lot of the latest ships
racing in that class. Does that mmean they are having
less fun then if they went Open/Standard/15m?


Using this logic Kirk...sounds like you need to move
up to open class.

I've seen several people out here buy PW-5s (all enthusiastic),
do a
little XC, then give it up and sell them because everybody
else leaves
them behind.

If they thought otherwise...they did not do their homework.

I see the Sparrowhawk as a typical US 'we do it different
here'
approach. I'm sure it's a nice little glider, but
not sure where it
fits in the big picture. I know I have no desire to
trade my ship for
it - it's easy to get addicted to high performance!

High performance or high dollars? Nothing wrong with
promoting flying new ships...that now go for $100K+,
but in theory soaring has not quite become America's
Cup yacht racing yet.

Kirk

(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message . com...
The US dollar is now valued close to 0.75 Euro, down from its peak of
1.25 a couple of years ago. Analysts say it may go even lower, with
some projecting exchange rates of 0.7 (1.4 dollar to the Euro).

This has pretty much put the kibosh on my goals of buying a new
European sailplane. A model at, say, Euro 85,000 cost around $70,000
a couple of years ago, is now around $110,000 and may soon be at
$120,000.

Economic models would suggest a strong incentive for sailplane
manufacture in North America, but I wonder if the numbers of potential
sales would justify this.

Any thoughts?

Yes, invest your money and wait. For instance, if you put your money
in a high quality mutual fund you will begin accumulating principal.
Take your $70,000 and put in a Morningstar 5-star fund (i.e. Fidelity
Contrafund). If you average 15% return the numbers a
Year Amount
0 $70000
1 80500
2 92575
3 106461
4 122430
5 140795
6 161914
etc.

At some point the price of the glider, converted from euros, is going
to be less than your investment. BUY THE GLIDER! This is, simply, the
power of compounded interest.

Don't agree with my numbers? Then put your damn money into a mattress
and see what happens!

The moral of the story is that patience is on the side of the buyer.

(Lennie the Lurker) wrote in message . com...
(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message . com...

Economic models would suggest a strong incentive for sailplane
manufacture in North America, but I wonder if the numbers of potential
sales would justify this.

Any thoughts?

Designed, tested and developed in the US, then made in china with our
current management practices. Net gain = new market = 0. The only
things we make here are hamburgers.

Why don't you drive your China-produced car into the lake!

Tony Verhulst wrote in message ...
A club member put it to me like this recently: "In this part of the
country (Northeast US) there are only a handful of truly great soaring
days per year. When those days arrive, you don't want to be sitting on
the ground while your partner flies".

Tony V.

Right ! Buy a Duo !
Best Regards, Dave

(Tom Seim) wrote in message om...
(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message . com...
The US dollar is now valued close to 0.75 Euro, down from its peak of
1.25 a couple of years ago. Analysts say it may go even lower, with
some projecting exchange rates of 0.7 (1.4 dollar to the Euro).

This has pretty much put the kibosh on my goals of buying a new
European sailplane. A model at, say, Euro 85,000 cost around $70,000
a couple of years ago, is now around $110,000 and may soon be at
$120,000.

Economic models would suggest a strong incentive for sailplane
manufacture in North America, but I wonder if the numbers of potential
sales would justify this.

Any thoughts?

Yes, invest your money and wait. For instance, if you put your money
in a high quality mutual fund you will begin accumulating principal.
Take your $70,000 and put in a Morningstar 5-star fund (i.e. Fidelity
Contrafund). If you average 15% return the numbers a
Year Amount
0 $70000
1 80500
2 92575
3 106461
4 122430
5 140795
6 161914
etc.

At some point the price of the glider, converted from euros, is going
to be less than your investment. BUY THE GLIDER! This is, simply, the
power of compounded interest.

Don't agree with my numbers? Then put your damn money into a mattress
and see what happens!

The moral of the story is that patience is on the side of the buyer.

Interesting story.
The only trouble with it is that an average return of 15% on your
investment is not enough to keep up with the free fall of the US
dollar.