Cheap sailplanes

When I was young, I could afford learning to soar because my club had a
scheme for youngsters and wasn't expensive overall at all. Today, 24 years
later that club charges haven't changed alot.

It's rather the fact that youngster appearently today need LS8's to get
their thrill, and don't like to fly a Pégase or ASW19 which drive prices in
French clubs up. However, if you look into most German clubs, prices are
fairly low, and more so for youngsters.

Today, you get an ASW20 for 30kEuro, and 20 years ago, you got the same
glider with the same performance for 30kEuro (but salaries ha^ve got up a
little during the last 20 years...). Clubs which keep that in mind do have
low fees, and clubs with ASW27's often do have higher fees.

If you don't experience the same, maybe you should get organized - like
moving away from Paris... ;-)

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Michel Talon" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Bert Willing wrote:
I absolutely agree with you.
There is a great market out there for any budget above $2-3000, and all
this
2price for racing" stuff isn't interesting to at least 95% of the soaring
population.
And in Europe, gliding for youngster asks for a budget very much like
skiing, horse riding, small motorcycles or whatever a 16 years old
fancies
to do (and it's those 16 years old kid who are the future of soaring, not
any of those 50-years-old-catching-up-with-their-dreams folks) and gets
the
money for anyways.

And you live in a completely unrealistic world. In our world in Europe,
the vast majority of youngsters don't have the money for skiing, horse
riding, etc. Anyways my kids didn't have the money to do anything of
that sort, and still i have a reasonably good job, and so does my wife.
You should stop thinking anyone is a medical doctor or a lawyer earning
several hundred thousand dollars a year. Another thing i can add is that
when i was young myself i could afford flying gliders, and even power
flying. Things have considerably degraded, and your arguments that even
with zero cost, gliding would continue do decline is complete bull****.



--

Michel TALON

Bert Willing wrote:
When I was young, I could afford learning to soar because my club had a
scheme for youngsters and wasn't expensive overall at all. Today, 24 years
later that club charges haven't changed alot.

Yes, when i was young, clubs had special prices for young people, and
there were even aids for power flying. I remember that when i began
gliding, launches were 30F, that is around 5$, now they are around 20
euros. Even at that time a lot of "blue collar" people who had been
active in the gliding community were leaving because it was too
expensive.


It's rather the fact that youngster appearently today need LS8's to get
their thrill, and don't like to fly a Pégase or ASW19 which drive prices in
French clubs up. However, if you look into most German clubs, prices are
fairly low, and more so for youngsters.


Fine, this is what i have heard several times here, but this is clearly
not the case in France. If i look at the fleet of a club i like near
Paris, Buno-Bonnevaux, there is still a large number of Pegases, and
not many expensive gliders. However the prices are very far from what
you describe in Germany. If i look at the fleet at a well known club in
the alps, Sisteron, both the gliders are quite old, and the prices are
outrageous.


Today, you get an ASW20 for 30kEuro, and 20 years ago, you got the same
glider with the same performance for 30kEuro (but salaries ha^ve got up a
little during the last 20 years...). Clubs which keep that in mind do have
low fees, and clubs with ASW27's often do have higher fees.


Salaries did not go up very much in the last 20 years, or at least in
the last 10 years. In fact they are very close to stationnary in the
last 10 years. So you wonder that a 25 years old glider which is
basically no more performing than a Pegase is still 30k euros?
Personnally i think such a price is absolutely scandalous, it is
basically a one year income for an academic staff, a software engineer,
etc. As i said, you should be conscient that salaries in the 100k
dollars are absolutely exceptional here. People accept to spend
100-200 k$ for something vital and durable, a house, but for nothing
else.

If you don't experience the same, maybe you should get organized - like
moving away from Paris... ;-)


Which means that my family income would be divided by two because my
wife would be out of job. I know the story i have lived in Montpellier.
It would be an excellent way to make economies :-(


--

Michel TALON

You can't compare prices in the Southern Alps with regular clubs. One of the
main differences between French clubs and German clubs is that in Germany,
there are no employees in a club, and so no salaries to pay. The drawback is
of course weekend operation only (well I for my part have to work during the
week anyways...).

And if you don't like the second hand prices for an ASW20, you can always go
for an ASW20F :-)) Or get one or two syndicate partners as I do.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Michel Talon" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Bert Willing wrote:
When I was young, I could afford learning to soar because my club had a
scheme for youngsters and wasn't expensive overall at all. Today, 24
years
later that club charges haven't changed alot.

Yes, when i was young, clubs had special prices for young people, and
there were even aids for power flying. I remember that when i began
gliding, launches were 30F, that is around 5$, now they are around 20
euros. Even at that time a lot of "blue collar" people who had been
active in the gliding community were leaving because it was too
expensive.


It's rather the fact that youngster appearently today need LS8's to get
their thrill, and don't like to fly a Pégase or ASW19 which drive prices
in
French clubs up. However, if you look into most German clubs, prices are
fairly low, and more so for youngsters.


Fine, this is what i have heard several times here, but this is clearly
not the case in France. If i look at the fleet of a club i like near
Paris, Buno-Bonnevaux, there is still a large number of Pegases, and
not many expensive gliders. However the prices are very far from what
you describe in Germany. If i look at the fleet at a well known club in
the alps, Sisteron, both the gliders are quite old, and the prices are
outrageous.


Today, you get an ASW20 for 30kEuro, and 20 years ago, you got the same
glider with the same performance for 30kEuro (but salaries ha^ve got up a
little during the last 20 years...). Clubs which keep that in mind do
have
low fees, and clubs with ASW27's often do have higher fees.


Salaries did not go up very much in the last 20 years, or at least in
the last 10 years. In fact they are very close to stationnary in the
last 10 years. So you wonder that a 25 years old glider which is
basically no more performing than a Pegase is still 30k euros?
Personnally i think such a price is absolutely scandalous, it is
basically a one year income for an academic staff, a software engineer,
etc. As i said, you should be conscient that salaries in the 100k
dollars are absolutely exceptional here. People accept to spend
100-200 k$ for something vital and durable, a house, but for nothing
else.

If you don't experience the same, maybe you should get organized - like
moving away from Paris... ;-)


Which means that my family income would be divided by two because my
wife would be out of job. I know the story i have lived in Montpellier.
It would be an excellent way to make economies :-(


--

Michel TALON