Puchacz fatal accident 18 Jan. 2004 at Husbands Bosworth.

I wonder about "letting go the stick" and letting the glider recover
itself - is this really being taught as a procedure?

I have not done this in glider but it works just great in a Super
Decathelon. Even a fully developed spin recovers quicky but you do add
opposite rudder. My acro instructor (placed 10th in the 2004 World
Advanced Aerobatic Championship in Sweden, FWIW) claims that most
reasonably stable aircraft will recover in this fashion. The ones that
don't are the Pitts's and Extra's - designed for acro and nothing else.
I intend to try it in an L23 when the season starts up again.

Tony V.

In article , Tony Verhulst
writes

I wonder about "letting go the stick" and letting the glider recover
itself - is this really being taught as a procedure?

This idea seems a good way to die if you are already in a full spin,
particularly at aft C of G. I do no deny that it may work in some
aircraft but to get the idea that it is a good standard technique could
cut your time short on this earth.

Of course, you may not be in a fully developed spin, just in the early
stages before full autorotation has developed. In that case, just
centralising the stick and rudder (perhaps easing the stick forward) and
levelling the wings with aileron may work, but that just shows that you
were not in a condition of full autorotation which is the "fully
developed spin".

The standard recovery procedure once a full spin has developed that
works for most aircraft is,

1. Full rudder opposite to the spin direction (make sure it really is
opposite to the rotation, I for one have applied the wrong rudder in a
spinning jet when I was caught by a surprise departure).

2. Short pause,

3. Stick centrally and progressively forward until the rotation stops.
Keeping on absolutely FULL opposite rudder is important, some people
have only applied partial rudder with disastrous effects such as getting
into a high rotation spin. "Centrally" on the stick is important too,
applied aileron can adversely affect spin recovery. Some aircraft I
have flown that were regularly used for spin training, had a white
circle painted on the middle of the instrument panel to mark the
"central aileron" stick position for use during spin recoveries.

4. Centralise the rudder when rotation can be seen to have almost
stopped (if you wait too late to centralise the rudder, you will spin
the other way).

5. Ease gently out of the resulting steep dive, taking care not to
apply too much G (too much G can lead to G-stall or flick, and make
things worse). Bear in mind that after rotation stops, some gliders are
nearly vertical or even beyond (pitch angle, say, 100 degrees where 90
degrees is vertically down).

I intend to try it in an L23 when the season starts up again.

I do not know the L23, but be very careful in experimenting with fully
developed spins in any aircraft, that is, those with the nose well down
and over about two full turns. They can catch you out unless you
approach the exercise systematically. Aft C of G is particularly
dangerous, as is not having enough height to bale out if things go wrong
.....

I do urge you to take such an exercise very seriously, as if your life
depended on it. As it does.

I speak as an ex military test pilot with much experience of stalling
and spinning in many types of aircraft, with and without engines. Any
fully developed spin is not to be taken lightly, at any altitude.

Recoveries from slow speed situations and wing-drops at the stall are
different, practise them often.

Conditions of full autorotation can be, often has been, and will
continue to be, fatal unless properly prepared for.

--
Ian Strachan

Ian Strachan wrote:

The standard recovery procedure once a full spin has developed that
works for most aircraft is,

It doesn't work in "most" aircraft, but rather in *all* aircraft which
are JAR certified. In fact, for an aircraft to get JAR certification,
this method must recover from a spin of at least five full rotations.
(If the CG is within the stated limits, of course!)

Stefan

In article , Stefan
writes
Ian Strachan wrote:

The standard recovery procedure once a full spin has developed that
works for most aircraft is,

It doesn't work in "most" aircraft, but rather in *all* aircraft which
are JAR certified. In fact, for an aircraft to get JAR certification,
this method must recover from a spin of at least five full rotations.
(If the CG is within the stated limits, of course!)

Glad to hear it. I try to be cautious in my posts and not to say things
that could be shot down and reduce the impact of the main points that I
am trying to make.

In this case that deliberate fully-developed spinning at low level below
bale-out height has questionable training value compared to spinning at
a safe height, is extremely foolish, and does no credit to our sport in
the eyes of others.

--
Ian Strachan

Ian Strachan wrote:

In this case that deliberate fully-developed spinning at low level below
bale-out height has questionable training value compared to spinning at
a safe height, is extremely foolish,

No question about this. I never start a deliberate spin (or even try the
stall behaviour of an unknown plane) below 3000 ft AGL.

Stefan

In article , Stefan
writes
Ian Strachan wrote:

In this case that deliberate fully-developed spinning at low level
below bale-out height has questionable training value compared to
spinning at a safe height, is extremely foolish,

No question about this. I never start a deliberate spin (or even try
the stall behaviour of an unknown plane) below 3000 ft AGL.

Stalling, in the sense of a cautious and gradual approach to the stall,
is another thing entirely, quite different to a full autorotative state
in a downward direction.

But you are right to be cautious, particularly with any "unknown
quantity" be it a glider, powered aircraft, high performance jet, or
whatever.

At the stall, stick forward to reduce alpha, pause for airspeed to
build, then normal use of aileron to level wings as necessary, is my
recommended action in most types of aircraft.

Note, no use of coarse rudder. Coarse rudder applied near the stall can
often lead to, guess what?

A

S ...... P ....... I ........ N

Surprise, surprise .......

Myself, in a glider environment, a slow approach to a stall and a quick
recovery, starting from 1500 ft AGL is OK. In a glider with known and
reasonable characteristics, 1000 ft. The difference to a
fully-developed spin is very marked, no comparison, really.

--
Ian Strachan

Ian Strachan wrote:

Stalling, in the sense of a cautious and gradual approach to the stall,
is another thing entirely, quite different to a full autorotative state
in a downward direction.

Yes. But part of my stall behaviour exploring is if, and if yes, when
and how does the glider drop a wing? Can it be held, fully stalled, with
the rudder? If yes, I push the stick forward and everyting is fine. If
no, guess what happens?

Stefan